People Enjoy hard Games

[CelestiCer]

I just wanted to point out the trend so people who oppose optional complexity or optional grinds yet support optional easy modes can stop for a moment and look at themselves and realise that they're showing hypocrisy. Either they're ok with options for both sides or they're not ok with any options at all (easy or hard), picking one to support while opposing the other side just makes a person a hypocrite.

I agree... everyone ignores the word " Optional "... We're not suggesting or at least most of us are not advocating to make mastering harder difficult content or Job nuances as " Mandatory ". Yet when Optional difficulty to master or do, usually in the form of lifting the Skill-Ceiling is even mentioned? they don't even think about the implications that it wouldn't affect their casual content or gameplay... nor will they define it as leaving the Skill-Floor alone... heck I'll even be surprised if they know what we mean by Skill-Floor at this point... they will just view it as " The most hardcore extreme players want to screw over casual players " when it can't be further from the truth.

And it is indeed hypocrisy. So much of the optional casual play already exists and yet they want more which affects eventually the joy of players seeking complexity, but they will rarely or never advocate for optional complexity. For me? Mainly I desire Job complexity or stop simplifying our job designs

[WeebPolice]

I agree... everyone ignores the word " Optional "... We're not suggesting or at least most of us are not advocating to make mastering harder difficult content or Job nuances as " Mandatory ". Yet when Optional difficulty to master or do, usually in the form of lifting the Skill-Ceiling is even mentioned? they don't even think about the implications that it wouldn't affect their casual content or gameplay... nor will they define it as leaving the Skill-Floor alone... heck I'll even be surprised if they know what we mean by Skill-Floor at this point... they will just view it as " The most hardcore extreme players want to screw over casual players " when it can't be further from the truth.

And it is indeed hypocrisy. So much of the optional casual play already exists and yet they want more which affects eventually the joy of players seeking complexity, but they will rarely or never advocate for optional complexity. For me? Mainly I desire Job complexity or stop simplifying our job designs

Yes, citizen, couldn't agree more with this. I don't understand how people get the idea that introducing more optional difficult content is somehow going to screw over casual players in the game.




Spirits be with you.

[Shurrikhan]

Casual players carry every game. Sorry, but hardcore players are just an extremely loud minority. If you make a game hostile to casual players, it dies because its population falls off a cliff. It's always been like that. Just look at all the "hardcore full loot PvP" games everyone claims to love. None of them have been successful.

Equating those who feel shafted by increased job simplifications and lack of midcore content in the interest of focusing only on what attracts the most casual of players or buoys XIV's Twitch presence to the "hardcore" players of "hardcore full loot PvP" games is... quite the stretch.

[Payadopa]

Casual players carry every game. Sorry, but hardcore players are just an extremely loud minority. If you make a game hostile to casual players, it dies because its population falls off a cliff. It's always been like that. Just look at all the "hardcore full loot PvP" games everyone claims to love. None of them have been successful.

Yes, but how is adding difficulty options harming casual players? That issue got solved like decades ago yet SE is dumbing down everything and therefore everyone gets affected.

[Deo14]

Yeah, couldn't agree more with this. I don't understand how people get the idea that introducing more optional difficult content is somehow going to screw over casual players in the game.

Because some people think they're entitled to have all content tailored specifically for them. They cannot comprehend the idea of optional content, and will force themselves to do content they hate, and then complain about it.

[NanaWiloh]

Because some people think they're entitled to have all content tailored specifically for them. They cannot comprehend the idea of optional content, and will force themselves to do content they hate, and then complain about it.

Also players who are afraid the difficulty will spill over into casual content. Honestly its been more the other way around as SE tries to get more players interested.

[SquishyPlushie]

There's a non-zero amount of us who want hard content, but only if it's not timegated with a weekly lockout and/or currency cap.

It's not worth dealing with people over timegate, no matter how much you devote to thirsting with exclusive mounts and glamours.

This is why I stopped playing FFXIV for months at a time, even though I started last year.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Casual players carry every game. Sorry, but hardcore players are just an extremely loud minority. If you make a game hostile to casual players, it dies because its population falls off a cliff. It's always been like that. Just look at all the "hardcore full loot PvP" games everyone claims to love. None of them have been successful.

IMO I disagree with that assessment. I'd say the majority of most player bases is the players in the middle range. And it's those players in the middle range that end up being the ones that have to suffer from the noisy, obnoxious, whiny, entitled, easy mode players that are being labeled casual when the actual casual players are the ones in the middle range that enjoy challenging and engaging content that isn't tuned to push skill proficiencies or limits but doesn't just hand everything to you like it's candy on Halloween.

[Aravell]

And most people wanting complexity to their jobs don't want it to be "optional", they want it to be required for clearing content above the MSQ level, which is only optional if we stretch the word to its limits. Indeed, when people propose adding that complexity but having a negligible DPS difference so that it IS optional, the people wanting the "optional" complexity insist that not be allowed. Meaning it's not "optional" at all. If you were really just asking for something optional (e.g. SCH to have 4 DoTs but optimal use of them produced the same DPS that current Boilspam does - making it truly optional), people wouldn't mind. It's when you ask for a change and then want to preclude the existing status quo from being able to clear content, often by saying "Well, if you don't want to grow, you shouldn't be clearing it"; which makes it not "optional" anymore.

You haven't yet explained how any additional optional complexity to jobs would somehow cause people who can already clear non-MSQ content right now to suddenly become unable to. Did you know that extremes can be cleared by healers who do no damage? Did you know that savage can be cleared by healers who do half their potential damage output?

Even in the extremely unlikely scenario of optional complexity reducing the output of the current playstyle to half of what it is now, people would still comfortably clear every piece of content except ultimates. I'm not sure where the gatekeeping is.

[Rolder50]

IMO I disagree with that assessment. I'd say the majority of most player bases is the players in the middle range. And it's those players in the middle range that end up being the ones that have to suffer from the noisy, obnoxious, whiny, entitled, easy mode players that are being labeled casual when the actual casual players are the ones in the middle range that enjoy challenging and engaging content that isn't tuned to push skill proficiencies or limits but doesn't just hand everything to you like it's candy on Halloween.

I'm in this category. I don't have the time or energy to push the super difficult content like Ultimate, but I DO want some content that at least makes me think. Which FF14 is severely lacking in.