Dawntrail Healer Change Predicitons

[Supersnow845]

Hitting adds, by nature of a greater number of hits, are less prone to RNG-based differences between parses.

So, which is it? Are melee/ffloggers somehow the reason we were 'forced' to have less luck-based variation between runs by way of more guaranteed-crits, or are they the reason we can't have things that would have much more split and even damage, which would do the same?

Again, most melee would see increased advantage over other jobs from the inclusion of more sudden and high counts of adds. 'Pandering to melee' is not the reason we've seen fewer adds waves in raids.

Melee disliking adds phases is far older than the excessive RNG damage problems we have now, all the way back at T4 if you happened to be let into a party on DRG or MNK (hard when triple BRD was almost meta) you despised T4, A2 was similar as was seiryu (I honestly can’t remember if they counted damage in adds for tsyukoyomi)

I’ve never maimed melee so I can only guess at the reason (melee tend to have weak and unbalanced AOE’s compared to say DNC/BLM/SMN) but it’s an old phenomenon that melee don’t like adds phases

[Shurrikhan]

Melee disliking adds phases is far older than the excessive RNG damage problems we have now, all the way back at T4 if you happened to be let into a party on DRG or MNK (hard when triple BRD was almost meta) you despised T4, A2 was similar as was seiryu (I honestly can’t remember if they counted damage in adds for tsyukoyomi)

Did fine in each of those fights as MNK and DRG (and as NIN and SAM on Seiryu)...

MNK and DRG in T4 and A2S were a non-issue unless running high-SkS, from the simple fact that this game has always and continues to screw over the resource-efficiency of its Speed stats (and AoEs were very TP-intensive back then, especially DRG's).

I’ve never mained melee so I can only guess at the reason (melee tend to have weak and unbalanced AOE’s compared to say DNC/BLM/SMN) but it’s an old phenomenon that melee don’t like adds phases

No, historically melee had some of the strongest sustained AoE short of unintentional outliers like ARR BLM (Flare and F2 were nerfed thereafter) and HW SMN (Bane was nerfed thereafter). The limitations were simply TP, but Bard and MCH were even more thereby screwed, Holy trucked WHM's MP (despite it originally outpacing BLM over 6-7 GCDs, especially if said BLM had no Ether or Convert), and SCH's and SMN's AoE was limited to Bane, Miasma II, and an infrequent Trance.

Melee did not hate AoE fights. They did just fine in AoE fights. And with TP having been removed, they (and Rangers) lack their main historical weakness.

[Supersnow845]

Did fine in each of those fights as MNK and DRG (and as NIN and SAM on Seiryu)...

MNK and DRG in T4 and A2S were a non-issue unless running high-SkS, from the simple fact that this game has always and continues to screw over the resource-efficiency of its Speed stats (and AoEs were very TP-intensive back then, especially DRG's).



No, historically melee had some of the strongest sustained AoE short of unintentional outliers like ARR BLM (Flare and F2 were nerfed thereafter) and HW SMN (Bane was nerfed thereafter). The limitations were simply TP, but Bard and MCH were even more thereby screwed, Holy trucked WHM's MP (despite it originally outpacing BLM over 6-7 GCDs, especially if said BLM had no Ether or Convert), and SCH's and SMN's AoE was limited to Bane, Miasma II, and an infrequent Trance.

Melee did not hate AoE fights. They did just fine in AoE fights. And with TP having been removed, they (and Rangers) lack their main historical weakness.

I’ll admit you and I have very different memories of that time period but things were very fragmented back then and the fact you actually did the fights on melee means I’m fine to defer to your judgment on this, I’m just going on what I’ve always “known” from what people who ran melees back then told me (and of course TP) but if you say it’s not so I’m fine to take that

I’m not immune to change

[Shurrikhan]

I’ll admit you and I have very different memories of that time period but things were very fragmented back then and the fact you actually did the fights on melee means I’m fine to defer to your judgment on this, I’m just going on what I’ve always “known” from what people who ran melees back then told me (and of course TP) but if you say it’s not so I’m fine to take that

I’m not immune to change

Fair enough.

I just get annoyed when we've got Problem A, and there's an obvious Cause B, and yet people will focus on Tangential, Unlikely, and Insufficient Reason C.

We have fewer add phases in raids now.

Given what other changes we've seen across the game, this seems in keeping with the devs' vibe of "Why bother? It might make something at least infinitesimally harder to balance if we included it. Just simplify."

That it could possibly have anything to do with Melee is contrary to their historical net performance, what reasons were behind their individual weaknesses, isn't sufficient in itself to explain changing the whole course of raids... so why are we distracting from the far more likely causes, let alone the issue itself, with some weird twist on (gear-)class warfare?

Fixating on that possibility so removed from the problem itself just doesn't make any sense to me, especially when the decrease in add phases predate Endwalker, add phases are generally to melees' advantage, tighter hitboxes just Melees' space is actually reserved for them (inadvertently reducing their chance of being PKed), and all but being forced (by the mechanic, not by party idiocy) to stack outside of melee range is generally fine to melee, etc., etc.

/shrug
/endrant

[Amenara]

My only prediction is that the devs are gonna skip Glare and Holy 4 and give us Glare and Holy 5.

[ForsakenRoe]

I just had a terrible thought about the AST rework, what if they redesigned Earthly Star into Assize? It's a very real possibility that they might think the timing aspect of the skill would be harder for new players to use, so they might just make it an instant explosion of healing and damage like Assize.

They can solve the timing issue while retaining it's 'skill' by having the AST that placed the Star gain stacks of 'Growing Dominance', one per second, up to a total of 10, and the 10th turns the full stack into 'Giant Dominance'. Then, have Star's damage and healing scale with a base amount (as it has now), and a capped amount (as it has now) from Giant Dominance, with the intermediary points calculated based on the stacks gained. So, if the Star currently goes from 100-150p in damage, have 100 as the base damage, and grant 5 potency per stack, such that detonating it at 7 stacks would deal 135p. Same for healing. I don't care much about the damage part, but it bloody sucks when you detonate it at 10, and the game hasn't registered the debuff needs to convert, so it says on your UI that it's 'big star' but it gives 'small star' numbers of healing. Let me have a smooth gradient of empowering the healing instead of this 'all or nothing' we have now thank you

[MintnHoney]

My only prediction is that the devs are gonna skip Glare and Holy 4 and give us Glare and Holy 5.

Nah, we're hitting level 100! We should treat ourselves.

WHM will get Glare, Holy, and Cure X at level 92, and then X-II at level 100 as an ultimate upgrade for reaching level 100, with a whopping 5 potency increase for each step as compared to their previous incarnations, but at least they made a fun reference to another FF game, right?

To that end:

SCHs will get an ability that eats their entire book, disabling them from using any abilities other than Eos-based abilities for 30 seconds, but increasing Eos' healing output by 30%. This will be in contrast to SMN, who will eat their book and become an avatar of their summons.

AST will get what WHM was originally supposed to get at level 100, Arise, but they'll call it Equinox and it will only provide its full healing potency (2-4% of max HP on target's incapacitation) based on an internal RNG that improves if the target was a melee DPS or ranged DPS at the time of casting (based on Eorzean time of day), meanwhile AST will lose a flat 50 potency on all of their personal damage tools to compensate, taking effect as soon as they get the ability.

At level 96, SGE will get the ability to perform a melee-ranged, single target "surgery" (translated: shoot another laser) in battle to inflict a context-sensitive debuff with no major effects attached to it, and later get a trait at level 100 to increase the potency of Pneuma by 5% if the enemy has that debuff. The debuff will last for 10 seconds, and the surgery will be on the GCD and deal no damage of its own.

/s, I hope

[Renathras]

SCHs will get an ability that eats their entire book, disabling them from using any abilities other than Eos-based abilities for 30 seconds, but increasing Eos' healing output by 30%. This will be in contrast to SMN, who will eat their book and become an avatar of their summons.

I mean...not gonna lie, that sounds a lot more fun and...well...GOOD than current Dissipation.

For 30 seconds, I can't use Adlo, Succor, or (lol?) Physic, and my Faerie abilities hit like a truck? I mean...that sounds kind of cool, actually. Would need a little tweak. For example, my SCH idea (shameless plug: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-Proposal-SCH ) was to have Energy Drain and (basically) Lustrate use Faerie Gauge (Lustrate being what Aetherpact turns into in this case), so your example mixed with that, add one more thing "for the 30 seconds, you have unlimited Faerie Gauge) would be amazing. For 30 seconds, you can rapid fire off Energy Drains while spot healing with Lustrate and still have Fey Blessing, Fey Illumination, and Whispering Dawn?

That...doesn't actually sound BAD, honestly. I'm sure it wouldn't be balanced at all and would screw with people that judge their worth by always having a GCD rolling, but it actually sounds fun machine gunning Energy Drains and Lustrates.

The SMN one is honestly what we do already. Just stand in melee range when you do Titan Phase and you have that same experience.

[ForsakenRoe]

I mean...not gonna lie, that sounds a lot more fun and...well...GOOD than current Dissipation.

For 30 seconds, I can't use Adlo, Succor, or (lol?) Physic, and my Faerie abilities hit like a truck?)

I read it as 'Ability' type skills, ie, no SCH-based OGCDs, so no Indom, Soil, Protraction, etc, which would be rough to work around, as Eos alone isn't gonna keep up even with 30% boosted healing

If it works like as you said though, that'd mean that it's every non-fairy skill regardless of it's weaponskill/spell/ability flags, in which case, no Broil for 30s? lol

[Renathras]

I read it as 'Ability' type skills, ie, no SCH-based OGCDs, so no Indom, Soil, Protraction, etc, which would be rough to work around, as Eos alone isn't gonna keep up even with 30% boosted healing

If it works like as you said though, that'd mean that it's every non-fairy skill regardless of it's weaponskill/spell/ability flags, in which case, no Broil for 30s? lol

What's that meme? "Stop! I can only get so..."?

I mean, it'd be one way to cut down on Broilspam.

I guess it depends on how often you're using that other stuff. A lot of stuff you can heal with Whispering Dawn and Fey Blessing. (Like...way more than we've any right to be healing with just those things alone... <_< ), but yeah, you're right. I was just thinking of something that let you machine gun Energy Drains while throwing out bomb Faerie heals on people 1/4th of the time. Still sounds way more fun than current Dissipation.