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  1. #21
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    You see all the "Shares a cooldown with X" or a 2 spender buttons that are either AoE or ST?
    Merge them together.

    Congratulations you just freed 3 buttons on SAM.

    There's no button bloat issue, only hotbar management issue.
    (5)

  2. #22
    Player
    ThaCa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    853
    Character
    Wise Fuchsia
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Every Job will recieve SMN treatment, except BLM.
    (2)

  3. #23
    Player
    MsMisato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lomensa
    Posts
    855
    Character
    Khloe Lafihna
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 64
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Square will do the same thing they always do

    Delete old skills then re-add them later and pretend they are different

    Anyone remember divine seal
    you mean like they did with bulwark XD
    (1)

  4. #24
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,595
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MsMisato View Post
    you mean like they did with bulwark XD
    And leeches and exalted detriment
    (1)

  5. #25
    Player
    Semirhage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Nemene Damendar
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    I can see it now. They'll condense the combos to one button then tack on something like Primal Rend or even just an upgrade of existing skills like Misery II or Triple Down. The net result will have you pressing one extra button every 2-3 minutes but spamming your 1 key just as much as Healers, if not more. Doesn't that sound absolutely riveting?
    God I hope so. Not for anyone's gameplay experience, but once the role that actually gets attention has their noses rubbed in how foul healer design is it might actually create enough complaining that they redesign...

    Okay I couldn't even believe that until the end of that sentence. They'd ignore it for half an expansion, then fix the ~3 DPS that the design team actually play, the internet will rejoice with cries of "see, they DO listen!" and call it a day.
    (3)

  6. #26
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,595
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
    God I hope so. Not for anyone's gameplay experience, but once the role that actually gets attention has their noses rubbed in how foul healer design is it might actually create enough complaining that they redesign...

    Okay I couldn't even believe that until the end of that sentence. They'd ignore it for half an expansion, then fix the ~3 DPS that the design team actually play, the internet will rejoice with cries of "see, they DO listen!" and call it a day.
    My constant oscillation between

    “If everyone suffered like healers they would do something about it”

    And

    “Nobody should suffer like healers do”

    Is getting called out here and I don’t like it
    (3)

  7. #27
    Player
    ForteNightshade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    3,644
    Character
    Kurenai Tenshi
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CKNovel View Post
    You see all the "Shares a cooldown with X" or a 2 spender buttons that are either AoE or ST?
    Merge them together.

    Congratulations you just freed 3 buttons on SAM.

    There's no button bloat issue, only hotbar management issue.
    Please and thank you.

    It's downright laughable they claimed Kaiten was removed to help with button bloat when Shoha II, Kyuten and Guren exist. The fact they added Orogeny and called it done just screamed they had no idea what to even give Warrior. Which I think is going to be a bigger problem come 7.0. None of the jobs really feel like they're missing anything. What do you give Red Mage at this point? A fourth "finisher"?
    (1)
    "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
    "The silence is your answer."


  8. #28
    Player
    Tanis_Ebonhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    646
    Character
    Klee Zunners
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerhorn View Post
    BUTTON BLOAT!!! That is what I fear the most because I know the game is gonna be great. Seems like soooo many jobs could use a good condensing and pruning of abilities. I say bring on more one button combos like Confiteor for PLD. Sure theres other things to be worried about like good rewards for time spent on difficult endeavors, but Button Bloat is comin for us ALL! Beware!!!
    Button Bloat is why I refuse to play certain jobs. If I'm switching jobs on the fly then I need to know the job immediately without having to scratch my head trying to remember how to play said Job.

    Button Bloat is why a lot of players tend to gravitate towards the "easier" jobs as they typically have less buttons to worry about. Like Summoner, Dancer, Warrior, and such.
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,595
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart View Post
    Button Bloat is why I refuse to play certain jobs. If I'm switching jobs on the fly then I need to know the job immediately without having to scratch my head trying to remember how to play said Job.

    Button Bloat is why a lot of players tend to gravitate towards the "easier" jobs as they typically have less buttons to worry about. Like Summoner, Dancer, Warrior, and such.
    If you don’t know a job then take the time to learn it’s unique playstyle, not ask them to change it to be similar to a job you already play so you can play more jobs
    (8)

  10. #30
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,411
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    There is the case of too many useful buttons, which is something that should be closely watched on so it doesn't become overbearing (DRG for example), but it's also important that they keep a close eye on the 'unecessary bloat'. And by that I mean actions that should become other actions instead of being 2 separate buttons. Ironically, those examples are often seen in jobs that are alreadt on the low button count spectrum.

    Dancer's Starfall Dance is only useable after you press Devilment - why Devilment doesn't become Starfall Dance, then? I know DNC is not thristy for free keybinds, but this at least could future proof some space. It's also wild that an example like this is also seen on Summoners in more than just one action, and they're the most basic job with the least amount of keys. It almost feels like this 'bloat' was purposedly placed there to somehow give the fake impression of complexity.
    (2)

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