Bring back Kaiten please

[Boblawblah]

So, as an outsider, I have to wonder, if an ability being removed changes absolutely nothing about a jobs rotation, doesn't that imply that two abilities were essentially filling the same space, and so it makes sense to remove one of them?

[Deo14]

So, as an outsider, I have to wonder, if an ability being removed changes absolutely nothing about a jobs rotation, doesn't that imply that two abilities were essentially filling the same space, and so it makes sense to remove one of them?

If you want to close both your eyes while defining "essentially", then yes, but Kaiten killed Kenki management and made Shinten 20-23% of SAM's all actions, meaning that on average, every 5th button you press is Shinten.

Might be comparable to RDM's black and white mana spells - they essentially do same things, so it makes sense to remove all white or all black spells, right?

[Boblawblah]

If you want to close both your eyes while defining "essentially", then yes, but Kaiten killed Kenki management and made Shinten 20-23% of SAM's all actions, meaning that on average, every 5th button you press is Shinten.

Might be comparable to RDM's black and white mana spells - they essentially do same things, so it makes sense to remove all white or all black spells, right?

Snark is always the best way to argue your point.

[Aravell]

So, as an outsider, I have to wonder, if an ability being removed changes absolutely nothing about a jobs rotation, doesn't that imply that two abilities were essentially filling the same space, and so it makes sense to remove one of them?

It actually does change the job's rotation, the reason that Shinten replaces all Kaiten usage in burst is because where Kaiten is used before now leaves excess kenki, which can only be spent on Shinten. The use cases outside of burst did vary.

[Eorzean_username]

It actually does change the job's rotation, the reason that Shinten replaces all Kaiten usage in burst is because where Kaiten is used before now leaves excess kenki, which can only be spent on Shinten. The use cases outside of burst did vary.

Being honest, though, Samurai has always been vomiting Shintens at least semi-constantly, because it has an abnormally-low Gauge cost for a spender.

It was probably(?) worse in Stormblood, due to Hagakure functionality, but Ikishoten at least partially recompensated that, and then ripping out Kaiten (and prior to that, Seigan) of course magnified it even more.

I'm pretty sure the real problem here is Shinten and Kenki just being poorly-designed from the very beginning, and clashing badly with the hypothetical "slow, methodical, suddenly-striking swordsman" fantasy — it's hard to feel like a classic Samurai movie duel when you're awkwardly and frantically stabbing your blade into something's face every few seconds.