Bring back Kaiten please

[Deo14]

So, as an outsider, I have to wonder, if an ability being removed changes absolutely nothing about a jobs rotation, doesn't that imply that two abilities were essentially filling the same space, and so it makes sense to remove one of them?

If you want to close both your eyes while defining "essentially", then yes, but Kaiten killed Kenki management and made Shinten 20-23% of SAM's all actions, meaning that on average, every 5th button you press is Shinten.

Might be comparable to RDM's black and white mana spells - they essentially do same things, so it makes sense to remove all white or all black spells, right?

[Boblawblah]

If you want to close both your eyes while defining "essentially", then yes, but Kaiten killed Kenki management and made Shinten 20-23% of SAM's all actions, meaning that on average, every 5th button you press is Shinten.

Might be comparable to RDM's black and white mana spells - they essentially do same things, so it makes sense to remove all white or all black spells, right?

Snark is always the best way to argue your point.

[Aravell]

So, as an outsider, I have to wonder, if an ability being removed changes absolutely nothing about a jobs rotation, doesn't that imply that two abilities were essentially filling the same space, and so it makes sense to remove one of them?

It actually does change the job's rotation, the reason that Shinten replaces all Kaiten usage in burst is because where Kaiten is used before now leaves excess kenki, which can only be spent on Shinten. The use cases outside of burst did vary.

[Eorzean_username]

It actually does change the job's rotation, the reason that Shinten replaces all Kaiten usage in burst is because where Kaiten is used before now leaves excess kenki, which can only be spent on Shinten. The use cases outside of burst did vary.

Being honest, though, Samurai has always been vomiting Shintens at least semi-constantly, because it has an abnormally-low Gauge cost for a spender.

It was probably(?) worse in Stormblood, due to Hagakure functionality, but Ikishoten at least partially recompensated that, and then ripping out Kaiten (and prior to that, Seigan) of course magnified it even more.

I'm pretty sure the real problem here is Shinten and Kenki just being poorly-designed from the very beginning, and clashing badly with the hypothetical "slow, methodical, suddenly-striking swordsman" fantasy — it's hard to feel like a classic Samurai movie duel when you're awkwardly and frantically stabbing your blade into something's face every few seconds.

[WantlessYoYo]

Don't know what you guys talking about he's right there /s

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Don't know what you guys talking about he's right there /s

Lol meanwhile in PvP having Kaiten at home and be meaningful:

Hissatsu: Soten

Swiftly charges forward, dealing damage with a potency of 4,000 to targets in your path.
Additional Effect: Grants Kaiten
Duration: 10s
Maximum Charges: 3
Cannot be executed while bound.

※Yukikaze changes to Hyosetsu while under the effect of Kaiten.
※Gekko changes to Mangetsu while under the effect of Kaiten.
※Kasha changes to Oka while under the effect of Kaiten.


In the same patch they deleted PvE Kaiten no less.

[VentVanitas]

return Tenka Gokken to a cone too while youre at it, please

[Roxus]

I've put this game into maintenance mode (only because of housing) until 7.0. If they don't give back Kaiten or at least replace it/Kenki (NOT REMOVING) I'm going to drop the game for good and move on while I still have good memories of 14. I've never been a fan of how they have constantly simplified the game to the point where gacha games have more meat in their systems. I've told myself repeatedly that they were taking away systems to improve on them since ARR, because I came from 1.0 I wanted to have faith in 14's future. I can count on one hand the times they revamped a system rather than removing it completely. Coming into Endwalker my friend group thought that now the original story is finished it would be a good time to put a fresh start on everything and take the training wheels off, but as it is now we feel that the wheels are welded on rather than held by some screws. What kept a lot of us going was the social aspect, but even that isn't enough anymore and our linkshells and fcs are pretty much barren with people moving on due to dissatisfaction/boredom. Job balance is a joke and class identity is basically nonexistent.

I don't care how many times people want to try and justify it's removal, the fact of the matter is it accomplished absolutely nothing. There are jobs that actually need help being ignored because their efforts are put into needless adjustments.

Last I checked I was playing Samurai and not some poor imitation of Fencer, which is what all this Shinten spam might as well be. Even during Hagakure days it wasn't this bad. Don't really know what else to say on this matter that hasn't already been said, I've said my piece in my own thread and Celesti has a compilation of threads in the DPS section. This isn't me saying the game is bad everywhere. I really love a lot about this game but I can't excuse how poor combat feels anymore.

[Oizen]

samurai dark arts

[Syln]

samurai dark arts

Indeed but Dark art animation looked stupid :3