Healer Suggestions Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

Slight tangent from me; but one thing I disliked was when ShB made Piety into an MP regen upgrade rather than increasing the MP cap itself. If I had my way, every job would be using MP in their rotation in some form.

Same, though mostly just if it had additional elements leverageable for gameplay.

I'm not a fan of a starvation mechanic existing just to support a stat that wouldn't otherwise need at all to exist (and no meaningful gameplay decisions around it). Short of the last time it was optimal to cast a Cure I / Physick, MP has only ever been a bloated anti-gameplay mechanic with a side of rez-charges, while TP has only devalued Skill Speed outside of certain less aTP/gcd thresholds (at which point, it was just a slightly lesser punishment).

even if it's just another way of hiding a cooldown

That's the thing I don't want it to be, to be fair. MP is effectively just 3.33 Edge/TBN charges on DRK, for instance, with each charge taking 45 seconds to recharge naturally and each generator (be it Syphon Strike, Stalwart Soul, Carve and Spit, or Delirium-Bloodspiller/Quietus) offering 9 seconds' of CDR. That's... literally all it is.

That's not awful, but neither does that feel like an actual mechanic of any sort. I'll work on a mock-up that might make clearer the extent I'd want for MP, but the short of it is that I'd like it to feel less like a just starvation (or, "Am able to use my abilities: Y/N") mechanic and to route more nuanced decisions through it or to visualize/demark broader successes.

a BLM squeezing just one more Fire IV if they get 1000 more MP

I think that's precisely why ARR/HW BLM's MP seemed the most interesting period to me, yep.

removing NIN mudra cooldowns and having it tied to MP instead

I could get behind something like that.

Like with speed currently, it would be another interesting way to alter ones rotation with stat choices. It'd be an absolute pig to balance, but dammit it sounds fun

Lol, yup.

[Post]

In regards to Piety, DRK at the time of MP pools had Darkside as a toggle-able action (rather than an invisible buff tied to their gauge when they use Edge/Flood of _____). It negated all MP regeneration while active, because they felt it was crucial to the job design and because, as they often do with actions, they wanted to make it very obvious for players that don't number-crunch or theorycraft that they should not be getting Piety as a DRK.

Likewise, BLM's MP regeneration halts under Astral Fire. The base piety differences of races actually meant that during ARR Dunesfolk were the ideal BLMs despite not having the highest INT because they were allowed for an extra Fire I cast per MP bar at level 50 when a SCH was in the group (+5% PIE buff). This was actually a pretty significant difference, and the fact it was significant was pretty bad for balance in a game that otherwise allowed you to do what you wanted to without worrying about 'locked-in' to choices. They purposely avoided these stat tiers in HW and StB to avoid this happening again, though you could sometimes regenerate significant MP under Astral Fire as a BLM using Luicd Dreaming, Mage's Ballad and the later version of The Ewer (the earlier version of the Ewer, which reduced spell costs, was kinda ideal for BLM other than, y'know, flat damage or casting speed increase almost always being better).

I guess my point is that their implementation of attributes makes it pretty clear that they're not really the focus of the game design, which I'm okay with if it means it's easier to swap jobs and try new things out at every level of the game, because that IS a focus of the game design. If the stats got in the way of this it'd be a pain. The worst was when we had accuracy requirements and vit requirements for healers, as well as fending accessories that made tanks deal less damage and enmity generation. I think the new loot system from the current Savage is a vast improvement because it makes it easier to get gear for other jobs, and not have to spend a buttload on overmelding materia for crafters if you want to be 'par'.

I kinda miss old MP pools for the nebulous sense of progression it gave, even though it was functionally identical to the current one (spells always increased in cost proportionally to a job's base MP pool at any level), and at the very least I agree that it's bizzare that there's this whole mp bar sitting there on every job's UI and the party frame, soaking up space and resources, and they basically can't interact with it at all, even adding additional gauges to each job and 'action charges' that they consume instead when MP's just been sitting there since the beginning, and especially since ShB's removal of TP. At least it gets used in pvp!

[ty_taurus]

I don't like how even a level 1 pugilist, for example, has like 200 HP and 10000 MP. Even if it's ultimately arbitrary, I'd like if MP maybe started at 100, and through traits, would increase in flat values for casters, Paladin, and Dark Knight, and what you could do is have the abilities that cost MP increase in cost, but not by as much. So for example, if healers have 100 MP at level 1, and maybe it increases to 500 at level 15, Raise at level 12 costs 100 MP--all of your MP, but only increases to 360 MP when your max increases to 500, and so on until it's 2400 cost for 10000 total, or something to that nature. It's entirely unnecessary, but it would just look better I feel.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't like how even a level 1 pugilist, for example, has like 200 HP and 10000 MP.

Well, I mean, it's really just 100.00% MP. We don't have actual MP values anymore.

Which, while smoother and more aesthetically pleasing, seems a shame given what prospects it then removes.

[AmiableApkallu]

when ShB made Piety into an MP regen upgrade rather than increasing the MP cap itself

OMG, is that why some skills say "Restores X% of MP"? I've never understood why FFXIV phrased things like that until now, since I started in post-ShB.

[vetch]

I don't like how even a level 1 pugilist, for example, has like 200 HP and 10000 MP. Even if it's ultimately arbitrary, I'd like if MP maybe started at 100, and through traits, would increase in flat values for casters, Paladin, and Dark Knight, and what you could do is have the abilities that cost MP increase in cost, but not by as much. So for example, if healers have 100 MP at level 1, and maybe it increases to 500 at level 15, Raise at level 12 costs 100 MP--all of your MP, but only increases to 360 MP when your max increases to 500, and so on until it's 2400 cost for 10000 total, or something to that nature. It's entirely unnecessary, but it would just look better I feel.

I disagree that it's unneccessary. Creating a feeling of getting more powerful and capable beyond just 'got new gear with bigger number' is very necessary for a fun RPG experience.

[Post]

OMG, is that why some skills say "Restores X% of MP"? I've never understood why FFXIV phrased things like that until now, since I started in post-ShB.

Yes, and perhaps most confusingly, actions like Lucid Dreaming have always existed and simultaneously described it in terms of potency when they were always really % as well (Lucid is 55 MP refresh potency over 21 seconds... my best guess is that this is 5.5% or 550MP per 3 seconds on top of the flat 2% you get per 3 sec. Dunno, never paid that close attention)

[Shurrikhan]

Yes, and perhaps most confusingly, actions like Lucid Dreaming have always existed and simultaneously described it in terms of potency when they were always really % as well (Lucid is 55 MP refresh potency over 21 seconds... my best guess is that this is 5.5% or 550MP per 3 seconds on top of the flat 2% you get per 3 sec. Dunno, never paid that close attention)

It is, yes. Refresh is 0.1% MP per potency now. (It used to be a flat amount per level, iirc.)

[TheDustyOne]

That's the thing I don't want it to be, to be fair. MP is effectively just 3.33 Edge/TBN charges on DRK, for instance, with each charge taking 45 seconds to recharge naturally and each generator (be it Syphon Strike, Stalwart Soul, Carve and Spit, or Delirium-Bloodspiller/Quietus) offering 9 seconds' of CDR. That's... literally all it is.

That's not awful, but neither does that feel like an actual mechanic of any sort. I'll work on a mock-up that might make clearer the extent I'd want for MP, but the short of it is that I'd like it to feel less like a just starvation (or, "Am able to use my abilities: Y/N") mechanic and to route more nuanced decisions through it or to visualize/demark broader successes.

I'm similar, I'd ideally rather have MP be a bit more interesting as well, but you could also technically argue that a lot of builder/spender gauges like Beast Gauge are like that too, slap a 15s cooldown and 2 charges on Fell Cleave, have infuriate give a charge, make Inner Release not care about cooldown, and, outside the opener, it'd play somewhat similarly (I'm just ignoring that the cooldown would still tick while Inner Releasing, don't mind me ). In that sense, a lot of the jobs now that have the generic 0-100 gauges like NIN, SAM, WAR, could move all of that to MP instead (also ignoring that we start fights with full MP, don't mind me ) and not a lot would change with regards to the feel of gameplay while making MP a bit more relevant to kits. So long as their respective "Gain X gauge" changes to "Restores Y MP" it would kinda work for them. Jobs that make use of both a gauge and MP would still need both of course.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm similar, I'd ideally rather have MP be a bit more interesting as well, but you could also technically argue that a lot of builder/spender gauges like Beast Gauge are like that too, slap a 15s cooldown and 2 charges on Fell Cleave, have infuriate give a charge...

Right. The difference is just what the resting %resource is. MP enters combat full. All other gauges enter at 0. (As you mention just a bit later.) Spender-rebuilder vs. Builder-spender.

The problem with migrating those systems to MP is that it's the equivalent of replacing Sentinel, Nebula, Shadowskin, and Vengeance with Fortificatis Genericis or whatever named Role Action. It takes things that previously at least had a separate skin for that tiny bit of distinct flavor and merges them into one for no other reason that that one can.

Else, the moment you actually do something with MP to give some reason for moving those melee onto an MP system instead but leave it as just a gauge-equivalent (no varied max MP)... now you have the balancing concern of varied potency-value per %MP. Do you Mana-shift the SAM? The NIN? On one hand, that's kinda cool. On the other... there's very likely to be just one, not particularly even situational answer, because those gauges were never meant to cross over.

/just food for thought