What if Tanks were designed like Healers?

[fulminating]

a bunch of other mixed abilities that are kind of random by today's standards (Convalescence, Tempered Will, Awareness)


Finally, two oGCDs, that were both kind of weird, one being an AOE DoT and the other being a reverse Essential Dignity where the damage was higher the closer to 100% the PLD's health was.




It's possible, but that's more if they all were the same way. One Tank working like Healers do now would probably not bother people too much. WAR players, for example, just seem happy to be solo 4 man parties. Remove their 1-2-3 -4 and just let them spam Fell Cleave over and over, have full uptime on Bloodwhetting, then Primal Rend once per minute and some Orogeny in there somewhere, and there are quite a few WARs that would be happy as clams over that.

Not saying they all would be, but they probably wouldn't be rioting over it.

Random is pushing it a bit, tempered will is quite situational but the other two are just tank* cooldowns that aren’t flat mitigations.

Hey remember when upheaval did more damage when you were more damaged? Crazy that they made a better version then slapped it on warrior.

I think I’d quit over that. There’s not enough blue mage and fishing content left for me to justify remaining. It’s bad enough that warrior is in the state it’s already in without making it yet worse. I really don’t like gunbreaker, new paladin isn’t fun and dark knight is in the same boat as healers when it comes to job design. Also the dps jobs are all just weirdly unfun.

[Shurrikhan]

Hey remember when upheaval did more damage when you were more damaged?

(Original) Upheaval [Warrior, lv64] - "Deals an attack with 300 potency. Potency decreases as own HP decreases. Potency also affected by maximum HP-increasing effects."
The first part you may recognize from old Spirit's Within. The second part was why Warriors could use Thrill of Battle as an (incredibly minor) offensive tool.

Upheaval has only ever been on Warrior, at least in FFXIV. There have also been no effects since 1.x that deal increased damage as %HP decreases.
The only other two instances of the ability name Upheaval appearing in FF games, as far as I could find, was also on Warrior in FFXI and Marauder in FF:SoP.

So... not exactly a stolen ability.

[fulminating]

words

Yeah changed my mind halfway through the sentence and didn't fix it.
also
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Revenge_Blast

[Shurrikhan]

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Revenge_Blast

So you're saying the 4.0 Warrior ability, Uprising... was stolen from the joke job that wasn't released until 4.5?

[fulminating]

So you're saying the 4.0 Warrior ability, Uprising... was stolen from the joke job that wasn't released until 4.5?

Spirits within and upheaval. (Stormblood)
Spirits within: Delivers an attack with a potency of 300. Potency decreases as HP decreases.
Upheaval: Delivers an attack with a potency of 300 Potency decreases as own HP decreases. Potency also affected by maximum HP-increasing effects granted to self.

The latter is a better designed version of the same concept because it interacts with other parts of your kit and you have more flexibility with it.

Calling anything a joke job when your main is listed as machinist is asking for trouble.

[Renathras]

Don't forget Thunder!

In 2.1 only, yes.

I think I’d quit over that.

I mean, if you play WAR now, it's not exactly like it's too much different. XD I kid, but...it's really not THAT much different; you metronome your way through 1-2-3, you occasionally press -4, and you still smack Fell Cleave a lot after using Primal Rend once per minute with Upheaval in there somewhere.

Again, not saying everyone would be thrilled, but quite a few WARs just love being a nearly unkillable god of battle and love the dopamine hits from Feel Cleave and Primal Rend, so "MOAR Fell Cleave! John F---in' MADDEN!!!" would make plenty quite content.

.

As I say all the time, having different types of Jobs/rotations/complexities for different players is really the answer. Imagine if we had 2.0 MRD (the full on Cross-Class craziness, just as a Job) in current FFXIV, obviously with abilities gained over time, alongside WAR as it is today (or the even dumber version outlined above). Wouldn't be too much of a problem since players could pick the one they want. The problem is when they don't have options.

.

EDIT:

Dancer chuckling uncomfortably as its heal/mit ogcd numbers get dangerously close to overtaking its damage ogcds.

...wait, really?

I really should look at DNC sometime. I still have an irrational boycott/hate of it since it was head-faked as a Healer (everyone thought it was going to be and the Devs didn't just say no early on, and kinda did the "is it or isn't it?" game), but I'm running low of Jobs below level 80 as I'm leveling them for that Amero, so guess I'll be getting to it soon...

[Icecylee]

...wait, really?

I really should look at DNC sometime. I still have an irrational boycott/hate of it since it was head-faked as a Healer (everyone thought it was going to be and the Devs didn't just say no early on, and kinda did the "is it or isn't it?" game), but I'm running low of Jobs below level 80 as I'm leveling them for that Amero, so guess I'll be getting to it soon...

Sort of, it's at 3 heal/mits vs 6 damage (and two of them are the same button but for st/gt and another one only ever turns on after hitting another one because EW changed how procs worked and needed to make up the damage loss from it)? So kind of exaggerated but also not really. Cure Waltz, Shield Damage, Improvisation vs Fan Dance 1/2 (st/gt), Fan Dance 3 (distinctly different), Devilment, Flourish+Fan Dance 4

[Silver-Strider]

Sort of, it's at 3 heal/mits vs 6 damage (and two of them are the same button but for st/gt and another one only ever turns on after hitting another one because EW changed how procs worked and needed to make up the damage loss from it)? So kind of exaggerated but also not really. Cure Waltz, Shield Damage, Improvisation vs Fan Dance 1/2 (st/gt), Fan Dance 3 (distinctly different), Devilment, Flourish+Fan Dance 4

Just make Closed Position a Kardia Clone, lower the CD on Curing Waltz/Improv and tack on a Regen to Technical Step and DNC could probably be a fairly effective Healer.

[ForsakenRoe]

Just make Closed Position a Kardia Clone, lower the CD on Curing Waltz/Improv and tack on a Regen to Technical Step and DNC could probably be a fairly effective Healer.

I've asked this in the past: If Curing Waltz had it's CD lowered to be spammable like Medica, it's range increased, and Shield Samba reduced to 30s CD to mirror Soil and Kerachole, what justifies it being flagged as a DPS, when it's able to do more HPS (and at zero MP cost) than an actual healer? The answer, I think, goes back to what I said before: The majority of it's OGCD kit is damage-focused in nature. Though as pointed out, that's because it's bloated by 4 different kinds of Fan Dance. To argue that 'oh in that situation, it'd be a healer because of how much HPS it can do' would directly contradict any notion that we can't have an involved damage rotation on healers, and also would prove how 'extra' all these OGCDs they keep giving us are, since 'CW with a 3s CD' would not only 'keep up' with every HPS check in the game right now, it'd likely be 'too strong', 600p every 3s would be insane

I don't really do much thinking about this particular topic but maybe later tonight I'll come up with 'dancer but actually as a healer' for the hell of it

[Shurrikhan]

I've asked this in the past: If Curing Waltz...

Ngl. I just wanted DNC to be its own damn thing. Like, pairing movement itself (relative to target, partner, or just previous positions within player-activated brief windows) and attack animations in such a way that everything acts similarly to a multi-leveled and integral Mudra-Ninjutsu with control over what section or degree of the preparatory actions / releasable effects banked would be released via at least a couple different capitalizing skills.

A truly versatile support, even less rigidly or solely a healer than an ARR or even Stormblood SCH was in a two-healer party.