Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[ForsakenRoe]

Please do tell me what's wrong with this assessment, or what your contra assessment is. Or feel free to express agreement. /shrug

The assessment is fine, it identifies the problem. The issue everyone is taking is not with your problem finding skills, but with your proposed solution to the problem. It's akin to saying 'yeh we should have all the melee be of different simplicity levels so that everyone has a class they can enjoy', leading to one of the melee, probably SAM at this point, let's be real, being reduced in skill ceiling to just being 'build sen spend sen'. Kaiten gone, people couldn't remember to save 20 gauge for it. Senei gauge pooling gone, Ikishoten gives 50 and Senei costs 25, you're always going to have enough. At this rate, in 7.0 Higanbana will be gone, because people are bad at remembering to apply a dot once a minute.

And when someone on the forums says 'damn I miss when SAM had a skill ceiling and you had optimizations you could do on it' your response is that 'no it has to stay braindead because otherwise you alienate the people who like the braindead gameplay', it's a ridiculous stance to take and that's why you get called out on it so much

Also I know you don't like comparing post like counts, insisting they're not a valid way to measure sentiment, but they're all we have here. And I see a whole lot of 10+ arguing against you, and a whole lot of 1's and 2's for you. Probably just the 'echo chamber' at work again, right? Everyone's always against Ren what a cruel world

[Renathras]

I'm not going to be wasting my time on you any further cause it just seems like every conversation we have just goes around in circles.
But you clearly have a very weird way of going about your arguments.

You present a solution to the problem, people disagree with you and they back their arguments up with well thought-out points that came from experience, and those points actually make sense.

That's literally what I have done.

You can disagree with someone's position, but it's not right to lie about what their position is or how they've defended it.

Anyway, yeah, I used to think it's always possible to have a rational discussion with anyone. That talking is good, finding compromise/meeting in the middle is good, and so on. These threads have me reevaluating that position. Not that you need listen, but in the future, if people give you a position based on insight, you contest it, and they defend their position with argument, you should listen to them. Strawmaning either their position or their argument style while suggesting the opposition (on your side) isn't that (Gaius' posts in here have been "well thought-out points that came from experience"? REALLY? You're going with calling digital heckling "well-thought out"?) is just outright lying.

It's also telling that the posts getting the most upvotes are those that are just plain and simple heckling, not actual arguments or proposals.

Let's take a look:

You're literally describing yourself my guy, but whatever. Tried to have a normal conversation, but it's not worth it I guess.

20 Likes

he's a 12 year old kid who can't handle the fact that some players know more than him, its fine

16 Likes (who also edited his post later after it got a bunch of those likes to include the other lines; and no, he won't post on his main or say who his main is to look up, and when I asked him, said he wouldn't tell me because it wouldn't make a difference - the exact opposite of his lying statement now:

Literally no point of me posting on my main lmao. You're still going to argue and will still dig your heels in.

Apparently, people like lies so much they'll upvote abject lies as long as they support said poster bashing/heckling someone else...)

The topic at hand would appear to be something you have no experience with, yet you're calling out people left right and centre and acting like the law of the forums, congratulating people when they agree with you.

Get a grip.

19 Likes

.

Which of these posts was a "well thought-out argument based on experience that made sense"? Ty's was a continuation of his long-standing feud with me from the Healer forum where he misinterprets what I say, when I clarify insists his misinterpretation is even more right than me telling him outright what I meant, and will never admit he was wrong about it. Gaius' post is a "he's a child" insult, where he says "even if you show him all your accomplishments" (something he's refused to do even once), and he's well known on General Discussion here for being a troll with a thread he started having basically every poster who is a common poster here in General point out that he's a well known troll who loves to harass people and posts on various alt accounts (actual ACCOUNTS) because he doesn't want people knowing what he actually has done or not done. And Fable I've honestly not encountered much other than her complaining about post length in a DPS thread on SMN instead of reading or responding to the arguments in the posts.

If you're going to call those well thought-out and sensible posts and mine not...you might want to reconsider your analytical techniques...

That tells me the people posting/liking posts here don't want well thought-out points that come from experience and make sense - which, for the record, mine are and have been - they want heckling and jeering of people who are making well thought-out posts from experience that make sense but with which they disagree personally and so prefer the heckling to having to confront difficult arguments that contest their views.

The dirty secret is, if I clear every Savage and Ultimate in this game, you'd just find something else to attack me over because you don't want agreement, middle-ground, or compromise. That I haven't is just your low hanging fruit excuse not to listen.

The assessment is fine, it identifies the problem.

Well, that's good at least.

As to your statement of my proposed solution:

My proposed solution is:

I'm trying to remember all the points, but things like damage not being regular, continued attacks on Tanks by bosses while casting (something you've proposed yourself), more consistent but smaller raidwide unavoidable damage that requires consistent healing (so cannot be treated by oGCDs alone), reducing oGCD healing power A LOT and making oGCDs more on abilities that augment GCD heals and mitigation (Presence of Mind, Divine Seal, Thin Air, Plenary Indulgence, Recitation, Deployment Tactics, Emergency Tactics, Fey Illumination) rather than REPLACE them. I'd honestly love it if Healer Jobs only had 1-2 oGCDs that healed and they had long CDs and were for clutch or emergency use, or extremely planned use, like how Tank Invulns (especially Hollowed and Bolide) are used; like how Benediction was GENERALLY used in ARR. You might notice that I point out a lot of abilities that were from ARR's WHM kit, or abilities in a similar vein. And to do this while nerfing the healing of Tanks and DPS and the mitigation from DPS.

Make more GCD actions, not less. Imagine WHM right now if it didn't have Afflatus heals (say you still get Misery every 1 min, whatever), Assize, Asylum, Tetra, Divine Benison, Aquaveil, and Temperance only had the heal boosting Divine Seal component. BUT, WHM also has an aoe mitigation cast spell (Protect) and a single target 500 potency barrier spell GCD (Stoneskin), and its oGCDs were all the kind that augment their GCD heals to make them more mana (Thin Air), hps (Presence of Mind), or both (Plenary Indulgence) efficient. The gameplay would revolve around using GCDs to heal your party, using oGCDs if you need to boost that for hard content.

Since the GCDs are still entirely functional, this doesn't hurt casual players in casual content.

Since the oGCDs only strengthen GCDs but GCDs are still required, even high end players would still break up their Glarespam for GCD spells that weren't Glare/Dia/Holy, thus being less "mind numbing" since it requires active engagement. YES, using them well would mean more GCDs for Glare, but you'd still need to break that up with GCDs for healing, and the content would still require consistent use of heals, thus being more engaging.

And in harder content, it would encourage intelligent use of oGCDs to augment healing, meaning high end players would still be engaged and the midcore would be more pressed but still be able to meet requirements. "Jonny Casual" isn't doing Ultimates, so this won't matter there.

While you might not find that the most fun thing ever, it's clearly better than what we have now AND would mean these "0 Healer clears" of content would no longer be a thing.

If you actually addressed what my stances are, not caricatures/strawmen of them, there might be a point in the discussion.

Many others besides me are saying these things, too.

And also:

Also I know you don't like comparing post like counts, insisting they're not a valid way to measure sentiment, but they're all we have here. And I see a whole lot of 10+ arguing against you, and a whole lot of 1's and 2's for you. Probably just the 'echo chamber' at work again, right? Everyone's always against Ren what a cruel world

Considering how you get likes for misrepresenting or misunderstanding my position, and Gauis gets likes for heckling, I would say that the like counter is, indeed, a completely useless metric, yes. Hundreds of people have posted in these threads and you get ~10 likes on things, with ~20 likes on outright heckle posts? Yeah, pretty sure that makes it a pretty terrible metric to use for anything meaningful. Maybe if the heckling posts weren't getting so highly rated, and maybe if the pro-heckle/jeer crowd wasn't overplaying their hands by liking rampant rule violation rude heckling posts, the metric would have more meaning.

But it doesn't because of that. Well, that and other reasons, besides.

.

Oh:

And bring back nAST.

I forgot to add that one above.

There is a meaning, and it's that Ren Thras is a meme.

Says the stalker.

If you want to look me up the second post of this thread gives ample hints.

Nope. You can post on your main or you can't. You haven't, and even refused to. All you've done is troll, heckle, stalk, and harass people, and been rewarded for it by people who I guess don't know better or who support internet bullying and stalking. And I'm not going to devote posts to you further. Troll harder. Or better yet, stop trolling.

Going to put my replies to you in hb going forward to spare sane people of having to be exposed to your trollish jeering and heckling anymore than necessary.