Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[CelestiCer]

Literally no point of me posting on my main lmao. You're still going to argue and will still dig your heels in. / Other people you're butting heads with here are Ultimate clearers already.

Ren Thras sentence cherry picking is next level. Ren Thras bases Job balance around " Casual Content below Savage ". The credentials reflects exactly that and the points made. Remains baffling that its not even a attempt to troll, it's what they genuinely believe improves XIV ( I fk'n can't... )

Replayability of Jobs matter ( replayability is a word right? )
I can only rewatch a movie so many times vs Popcorn I can enjoy with every Movie, as long as the Popcorn remains delicious. Movie sucks? hey my Popcorn still delicious. Same in XIV. Old content becomes Old, but my Job is what I play 24/7 into any piece of PvE content with Combat. A jobs replayability becomes important! through Nuances/Complexity/Depth. This increases the skill-ceiling which can be made " Optional " to master. The Skill-Floor can remain exactly the same, keeping the barrier of entry to casual content friendly as it lacks any DPS required Enrages.

Ultimates makes up 1% of all PvE content available
Jobs being made boring? means

• All of ARR/HW/SH/SHB/EW MSQ
• All Guildhests
• All Sidequests in the entire game
• All Fates in every zone
• All Dungeons of every expansion
• All Extreme Trials
• All Normal Raids
• All Alliance Raids
• All Savage Fights
• All Hunts
• All engagements with any mob ever
• Every Criterion that will ever be released

Everything before Ultimate is going to be more boring by making Jobs more boring. The sales-pitch " Just go play Ultimate " magically making our Jobs Crème de la crème experience is genuinely stupid. This means all gameplay that matters? is in " Ultimate ", of which appeals to maybe 1% of the population of the entire player-base...

[Renathras]

...

I mean, your post was kind of a weird gotcha, so maybe don't do those?

And perhaps you should take your own advice? This:

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on a second. Since when do you believe that someone performing a difficult job optimally was deserving of high damage output?

We had a conversation not long ago...

...was you not "leav(ing) your baggage at the door". If you would like too appear as the better person in a conversation, perhaps you should try that?

.

In any case, you're reading it wrong:

"SMN was considered comparable or even harder than BLM at the time, which is why it doing about as much damage as BLM while having a Raise WASN'T seen as a huge problem since most people understood that the high difficulty meant that SMNs weren't often doing that full damage and IF THEY WERE, they were good enough they deserved it."

Can also be written as "Most people considered SMN comparable or even harder than BLM at the time...Most people didn't see SMN having Raise as a huge problem...Most people understood that the high difficulty...Most people understood/felt IF THEY WERE..." I never said "I felt" or "I feel" anywhere in there, so that would not be the most logical or intuitive understanding of that phrase. You just kinda wanted to make that dig is all. /shrug

Literally no point

lol, thought so.

Good, we now all know you didn't do any of those things. Unlike me, who is posting on my character, you won't because you don't want people to see you haven't done those things. We all get it, you're talking out of your butt. That explains your takes being so bad. And I guess it makes sense - you spend so much time trolling in General Discussion, you can't actually do anything in-game. We get it. You keep "typing down nonsense" because you are a professional troll and don't have an achievement of value to your name and know that if you posted on your main, everyone would know it.

All you just did was prove you're a troll who doesn't know what he's talking about and can't meet the standards you hold others to. But...I guess we all already knew that by your seriously bad takes.

Farewell, little troll.

[ty_taurus]

I mean, your post was kind of a weird gotcha, so maybe don't do those?

And perhaps you should take your own advice? This:

What part of it is a weird gotcha? It's a legitimate question. Do you think skilled performance is deserving of higher output or not? You're not obligated to answer if you don't want to, but what's there to hide? You're allowed to have an opinion. I asked not because I'm holding on to your attitude from that conversation, but because that was a discussion about a potential system added to the game that was meant to make every healer appealing to both sides of the DPS argument.

Additionally, I don't know why we're getting into a discussion of English, but "they were good enough they deserved it" is a separate clause that communicates as a statement of affirmation. For example "Most people who tried our cookies stated that the chocolate chip cookie was the most delicious of the bunch, and rightfully so."

Notice how "and rightfully so" implies that I, the speaker, am affirming what 'most people' stated in regards to the cookies. "they were good enough they deserved it" with no other context reads as a statement of affirmation--you are affirming what most people believed about ShB SMN.

[GrimGale]

"If you want more engaging content go play ultimate"

"Not as a healer though. You'd only be holding your party back."

[george357]

this is how you make a monster of a dumpster fire topic from all the necro-bumping.

[Knot_D]

this is how you make a monster of a dumpster fire topic from all the necro-bumping.

Coming from the penta legend owner here

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

this is how you make a monster of a dumpster fire topic from all the necro-bumping.

Whats annoying is, it works every time lol

[Renathras]

...

I don't want to have this out with you here (we do that enough in the Healer forum), but the "short" version if you're so damned and determined to derail the thread is:
(in hb so as not to annoy EVERYONE ELSE here - this isn't the Healer subforum)

You already knew the answer, so it wasn't a legitimate question. The gotcha is because you think forcing an answer will result in some shift in perception or some such, when I already gave you an answer before. I take the Misshapen Chair perspective "shut up about a whole 2% damage difference". My personal perspective is that people should be able to play the things that they like. The different levels of complexity should be about having fun for those that want more not excluding those who want less. And, again, if you want to be the better person, you'd leave past discussions out of this one which isn't related to them anyway. And "they were good enough" was part of the same sentence, with the same subjects and indirect objects. There was no period there. And you're the one trying to make this into a discussion of English since, again, you already know my stance and so knew it from that sentence - or should have known - since that sentence was very clearly talking about a historic period in the past tense, not a present situation. Even if I WAS (which I'm not) saying in that sentence it was my view, that would have been 2-3 years ago, meaning our conversation from mere weeks ago would be the current one, meaning that if I HAD changed my position, it would have been in the opposite direction of that which you suggested with exaggerated incredulity. In other words, I was affirming what most people seemed to believe about ShB SMN, not my own position now (or then, but even if it was some kind of affirmation of my view, it would have been my view then, not now).

See, Ty? This is the issue I have discussing things with you. You read what I post (or sometimes don't - by your own admission), then take it in some wild direction. Then when I tell you "No, that's not what I said or meant", and even lay out how it isn't, instead of saying "Oh, I get you. My mistake", you try to justify your misunderstanding and insist it must be THE CORRECT understanding and I'm horrible at English or something for not wording it TO YOUR LIKING. In the worst case, you're either trying to insist I'm a hypocrite because you can't accept my clarification OR that I'm stupid/unintelligent for not being able to word it well (even though I do in both the initial statements AND the clarifications; you just want to misinterpret the former and ignore/reject the latter).

When someone says something, and you ask them if they meant something by it, and they tell you what they actually meant, it's incredibly rude to insist to them that your interpretation of their words/views is more accurate than their own as clarified to you, and to keep doing it even after they have clarified their position, and to use it as some kind of ongoing attack against them. Especially when you're derailing entire threads - plural, because of how often you do this - in your crusade to be "righter" and make them look stupid/foolish. At some point, it becomes malicious and, frankly, petty, in addition to rude, especially when it becomes clear that the person isn't saying what you think and that their statements are being misinterpreted by you on a consistent basis, not through fault on their part but because you want to kind of "get them" so bad you see what isn't there and refuse to let it go.

When the proper thing to do would be, after I've clarified, for you to say "Oh, I get what you mean. Sorry, my mistake." OR POSSIBLY (if you're more interested in being kind of a jerk and/or have self-esteem issues or just feel you need to justify your initial misunderstanding but still while being a decent-ish person) "Oh, I get what you mean. I thought you meant X because you said Y, but I see now with your clarification that isn't what you meant."

Instead, without fail, you always insist what I said HAS to be your interpretation, you try to justify that, and then you won't let it go, continuing to insist that your interpretation is right even several posts after I issued a clarification where you could have just let it go.

Remember what you said recently?

For example, like a week ago or so there was someone who didn't fully read a post I made in regards to the auto-battle concept and was making a comment about ways it wouldn't work based on misinformation. Rather than writing a 1200 word response on what a lying and deceitful person she was for not reading my post correctly, I very simply tried to clarify what I thought she didn't read correctly in a few words without any "you're actually wrong and this is why" type language, and the conversation resolved peacefully. Why is it that can happen with other players, but not with you?

When someone else didn't read my post, all I said was effectively 'I think you're misunderstanding,' the other person said 'oh, my bad' and we moved on.

...yet when I say "You're actually wrong because...", or "You're misunderstanding me, what I said and meant was..." you don't say "Oh, my bad" and move on, you latch onto what you THINK I said and why YOU THINK I said/meant that (even though I already at this point have clarified so there's no ambiguity) and keep trying to insist your interpretation is correct. And you do this both when you DON'T read my post and when you DO.

But, I seriously don't want to have these snippy conversations with you. If you are going to ask me "Did you mean X?!" and I answer "No, I meant Y" with "YOU MEANT X!!! THE WAY YOU SAID IT CAN ONLY BE INTERPRETED AS YOU MEAN X!!!" over and over again, there's just no point. I'm moving on. You can do the same or not, I don't care anymore. I answered your question of what I meant, so if you want to keep insisting "YOU'VE CHANGED YOUR POSITION BECAUSE YOU SAID WORDS!!!", that's on you. I genuinely can't spend my life correcting you and clarifying everything I say that you misinterpret AND reject even the clarifications of.

.

GD was right about one thing: It's a tangent argument that's irrelevant and started from him derailing the thread. Time to get back to the topic at hand.

[ty_taurus]

[...]

You're literally describing yourself my guy, but whatever. Tried to have a normal conversation, but it's not worth it I guess.

[GaiusDrakon]

You're literally describing yourself my guy, but whatever. Tried to have a normal conversation, but it's not worth it I guess.

he's a 12 year old kid who can't handle the fact that some players know more than him, its fine

even if you show him all your accomplishments he will still argue with you to the death

i've already told him how to look me up but obviously he doesn't care