Bring Back Kaiten

[Bobby66]

Never Forget!

[RyuuZero]

the thing with the demands we have to bring back Kaiten differ and that's bad, though I think it was on the 2nd Page of this Thread where I shared my Interfaces and regarding the changes looking at my AoE Interface, literally nothing would change but Kaiten would return^^

again, I'm sorry if my view points translate to insults, and I apologize for ewoking that kind of agony(especially at this time), though that "turn Ikishoten into Infuriate" could bring a change that makes the return of Kaiten a guaranteed possibility, by the way: that "turn Ikishoten into a trigger for Senei and Guren", isn't my Idea, it was from xAFROx, I just love that Idea so much that I will share it with everyone who cares about the Return of Kaiten^^

me personally I do not care about Savage, if a Job isn't fun on max lvl it's bad, simple as that and having Kenki solely to mitigate Shinten Spam instead of giving you the ability to boost all of your Weapenskills frankly sucks.

+on one thing I have to correct you, we not only want Kaiten back, we also want to roll up Tsubamegaeshi into Iaijutsu^^

regarding the pruning, I'd say that the Ikishoten rework to act more like WAR's Infuriate kinda does that already^^ since Senei would be on the same button as Shinten and Guren on the same button as Kyuten, which would free up 2 buttons, one for the Return of Kaiten and the other for the Single Target Ogi on lvl92^^

[RyuuZero]

Never Forget!

Gal! you have no Idea xD I used that Video to learn this Move in real life^^
with that said Happy Holidays ^-^

[RyuuZero]

first, another explaination of why Kaiten is important:
Kaiten gave the Samurai the ability to enhance their Weaponskills with Kenki and through excellent Resource Management the Samurai was able showcase Mastery.
Without Kaiten, Kenki is mainly there for the Samurai to spam Shinten like a Bitch.

now to why I feel the need to write this post:
with the PLD Rework and the Devs action to remove DoTs I have the feeling we're going to see the Extinction of DoTs. Now I rather wanna see the removal of Positionals because let's face it(..lol) when you're going to guarantee to hit the Positional you use True North to secure it, so why not remove positionals and delete True North, another old mechanic deleted another button saved!
But I have the feeling that I think too deep about that stuff so just remove all DoTs and leave the Community in the vague hope that we might get a DoT based Job in future.. xD yet on a more serious note, after the PLD rework and the DoT removal.. what do I think comes next? maybe they come for Samurai again and rework higanbana to be more like what Trickattack is right now!(ugh.. yay).. funnily the current Trickattack is basicly the old Disembowel, a debuff to the target that serves no one but the initiator.. yay, seriously I dislike the new Trickattack, it's not ruined, but just controversal to me.
Higanabana change prediction: Check
Now do I want Higanbana to be changed and do I like the Extinction of DoTs: No, my only suggestion/hope that may come as a Change to Higanbana would be that Kaeshi Higanbana would count as it's own DoT, once they merged Iaijutsu and Tsubamegaeshi, just how Ogi Namikiri works right now.

I see a Crossroad of Destiny here:
if we're lucky, all Positionals bite the dust
if we're unlucky, all DoTs will bite the dust

and it all goes down from there

[RyuuZero]

I know that I start on commenting on a PLD Change in the DPS Forum but it sparked a hopeful thought* about that regarding future Samurai Changes.
It's true that I dislike Divine Might on Paladin since it makes me question why can't I have Divine Might as a Trait all the time, but that's besides the point that I saw.
with Divine Might getting triggered after Royal Authority alongside Atonment Stacks shows me that the Game is able to handle 1 Skill that triggers 2 Buffs (which might not be the first example of a Skill doing that but the most recent!)
Now what does this have to do with the Samurai? simple! Ikishoten currently gives you 50 Kenki and triggers Ogi, what if Ikishoten also would trigger a Buff that turns Shinten into Senei and Kyuten into Guren? 2 Buttons saved enough to bring back Kaiten, which could be changed to guarantee the next Weaponskill to be direct hit instead of 50% more damage so that the combat designers don't cry because Auto-Crit Midare/Ogi are getting old. What do I want? I want to responsible to hit big, which was what Kaiten was enabling, giving the Samurai the Ability to make the Big Hits hit Bigger!

*to prevent disappointment, I do not believe in my hopeful thought, because in reality this game's Combat Direction is headed towards unmitigated braindeadness until they add Auto-Play via an Update.

Sorry if I drift into additional questioning the Kaiten Removal again but I naturally oppose the Kaiten Removal so:

• In 6.1 they took Kaiten, which resulted the Kenki Resource not granting the Samurai the ability to boost their weaponskills through Resouce Management, No just Spam Shinten like a Bitch.
• The Ninja got Trickattack reduced to a Personal DPS Boost (like old Disembowel worked) and Mug is the New Trickattack.. on 2minutes! yay..
• Speaking of Dragoon.. Jump got changed in 6.1 so that it triggered Mirage Dive on the same Button, which funnily got reverted so Mirage Dive is it's seperate Button again (Hey! Devs! I would honestly appreciate a reintroduction of Kaiten, you reverted a Dragoon Change, so could revert the Kaiten Removal aswell, please?)
• Looking at Life Surge, it's quite similar to Kaiten with that it makes the next Weaponskill stronger, though it's on a (now 40 second) Cool Down and does not interact with the Dragon Gauge, why didn't that Skill already got cut and potencies adjusted?
• Looking at Paladin, Fight or Flight, again, no Oath Gauge Interaction, why no cut and readjust the potencies..

.. because that's what they did to Samurai, they cut Kaiten, even though Kaiten had Kenki Gauge Interactivity that shaped the Samurai Gameplay on a Foundamental Level.
Well what's the use of Kenki now? Spamming Shinten like a Bitch

[jrollins89]

"Whaaat? Having trouble hearing you! 'Bring back Dismantle'!? You want Dismantle back? Ok sure we can bring Dismantle back!"

I'm sure that this is along the lines of what happened. On behalf of Machinists everywhere, we thank the Samurai community for inadvertently advocating on our behalf.

[RyuuZero]

well I also played some other Jobs and realized Samurai is just like White Mage.
Samurai spams Shinten, White Mage spams Glare.
Since my Main is on Cerberus I decided to get through DRS and get that Cerberus Mount, thus I yanked that Unusable Kaiten Button off from my active interface (since I play on Controller) so Kaiten yanked and hello True North, that I can use with Meikyo Shisui (which I also had as macro but the Meikyo Charge fucked that macro.. thx SE). Then only the ranged Spot was free, well playing through it as DNC then and got the Mount! I reduced my Aspectations to at least my Character looks Good and that carries me through a FFXIV Session alongside Loporrits and maybe playing Alts. I'm not so bewildered about the PLD rework but Goring Blade is kind of a waste now in feels. I also checked out SMN.. lol plays like a Pre-released Overwatch Character.. Though I attended a GameJam and got asked how I would the Kaiten Playstyle translate in an 2D enviroment and I worked out a plan within the bounds of my abilities for that. I also wrote stuff to better articulate why the Kaiten Removal is Bad. I wrote a script parody and even got to a content creator with it. 7.0 will be a Make or Break Expansion since the Bore has Spread noticiply with less things to enjoy by the day.

[Arohk]

Never Forget!

[Damokl]

Patch 6.4 dropped not so long ago and still kaitenless

Although i started playing quite recently, just the last august, my main goal was to get samurai asap and i quite did. Thus being stated it becomes clear that im unfamiliar with kaiten gameplay and havent been aware of its once presence until this march when i found out that it was actually a thing and the thing was big. That made me wonder why its been removed and after record-short terms of searching i figured out that its far from me being the only one who was wondering. Long story short i've recently read this and another one thread over the last day and man do RyuuZero loves drg and therefore most of skill merge counterarguments was about "it would be the same as those 2 skills that we already have on another job". Some might agree some might disagree but as i read further i came to a simple yet quite effective solution on button bloat which also would solve the same mumbling about accessibility issues.

So. Lets look truth in the eye. If ones would really be concerned about reducing button bloat and keeping variability at the same time (ST/aoe (especially for sam as its the main topic here)) we would get a "One Button To Rule Them All".
BEHOLD! THE STANCE SKILL! Specifically oGCD ST/AoE stance swapper with nearly no cooldown (something close to thm element changer). This little guy should appear as soon as you get ur first aoe weaponskill (which then would be considered as a trait for specific weaponskill). And as it comes from said above this button simply changes your ST skills to their AoE counterparts which are now also "*cannot be assigned to a hotbar".

With this solution we actually merge skills but instead of losing variability "because now everything is aoe wtf" we now have one or another for a single button that does about the same thing but mostly with different potency, therefore one button = 2 weaponskills which empties like a dozen of buttons (actually only 6 if im correct about it) leaving some place to put this stance skill, bring back KAITEN and drop any other new things they will want to throw into us (that are not like lets say ST ogi since its gonna be swapping with current namikiri back and forth). And GCD oGCD wont be a problem since nearly all of them share their cooldowns with their counterparts.

[Deo14]

So. Lets look truth in the eye. If ones would really be concerned about reducing button bloat and keeping variability at the same time (ST/aoe (especially for sam as its the main topic here)) we would get a "One Button To Rule Them All".
BEHOLD! THE STANCE SKILL! Specifically oGCD ST/AoE stance swapper with nearly no cooldown (something close to thm element changer). This little guy should appear as soon as you get ur first aoe weaponskill (which then would be considered as a trait for specific weaponskill). And as it comes from said above this button simply changes your ST skills to their AoE counterparts which are now also "*cannot be assigned to a hotbar".

With this solution we actually merge skills but instead of losing variability "because now everything is aoe wtf" we now have one or another for a single button that does about the same thing but mostly with different potency, therefore one button = 2 weaponskills which empties like a dozen of buttons (actually only 6 if im correct about it) leaving some place to put this stance skill, bring back KAITEN and drop any other new things they will want to throw into us (that are not like lets say ST ogi since its gonna be swapping with current namikiri back and forth). And GCD oGCD wont be a problem since nearly all of them share their cooldowns with their counterparts.

I've actually started using this AoE/ST stance few weeks ago and it is really good for some jobs. The way I implemented it is pretty annoying to set up, but it would definitely be worth it if devs made simple, native ST/AoE switch button, obviously not mandatory, but for those who want it. But IF there really was button bloat problem, then I'm afraid this wouldn't fully solve it.

I use this setup for most of my DPS, but for tanks and healers I don't, since it becomes more complicated, because there is more abilities that are neither ST or AoE exclusive.

Healers have ST damage/AoE damage (granted, these 2 categories are just 3 buttons, but still) and then bunch of AoE and bunch of ST heals, so you have 4 main categories and bunch of skills that don't fit any of them on top of that. Maybe you could have DPS skills on both layouts, where AoE layout will have only AoE heals and so on. But then you would need to swap layouts mid fight, which is not the way I use them.

Tanks on the other hand, have bunch of mitigation and other utilities which you need to have available at all times. I've looked at my PLD, and even though I could make these layouts, I would still need extra hotbar for all the mitigations. So it really feels like it's mainly DPS that benefit from this.

To give better idea, here are my SAM's hotbars:



So for SAM, I've saved 6 buttons. Theoretically, I could maybe put some other skills to the 3 empty slots in my AoE layout, but then I would need to be swapping layouts mid fight, which I really don't want. This way, I just swap layouts in dungeons, whenever I fight trash or boss.

While this is certainly good idea, it has some limitation (but possible upsides definitely outweight them). For example, MNK has Meditation which turns into forbidden chakra (ST oGCD) when you have enough stacks, but Enlightment, which is AoE counterpart, doesn't have the meditation part. So in AoE layout, I need to keep both meditation (which turns into ST oGCD) and AoE oGCD. But of course, if they really natively implemented this, I'm sure that these things could be easily fixed.