Bring Back Kaiten

[Vencio]

Bump. Yes, we still want Kaiten back. The change has not grown on me or been accepted over time or anything like that. It's still a terrible loss and feels awful.

I am afraid that’s the way it is now & it may be for more 4-5 months,

Maybe it will never come.

PS: You still got the crits & Katana moves!

[Mimilu]

Maybe it will never come.

Aw, don't be discouraged Vencio; As long as there are people who are willing to keep up the fight, I'm sure the devs will get the message! Even if they have to do it over and over again over the course of 4-5 months. Keep it up guys!
Ｏ(≧▽≦ )Ｏ

[Ceridwen]

Bump. Yes, we still want Kaiten back. The change has not grown on me or been accepted over time or anything like that. It's still a terrible loss and feels awful.

I leveled Samurai right away on my bunny - I started to gear him, and then - this. I hated it. I still hate it. Samurai is going to be this one's last to 90, & I'm not looking forward to it. I'm holding it off on the forlorn hope they'll revert this stupid, stupid change. I don't expect it but hope springs eternal. So I'm waiting.

If anything, it's worse now then the first day. It's so FLAT, so hollow, so empty. It's had the added effect of making me look at class design more critically, and I do NOT want to feel this way, or to have this mindset. But - narrowed eyes...

[RyuuZero]

No! They've to listen to our Voice to Bring Back Kaiten, even if it's just reinstating Kenki Synergy with Weaponskills, I'm working on a Text throroughly explaining exactly what we need on Changes for Samurai, here are The Points, I made:

• With the Kaiten Removal, Kenki got stripped from it's Original Purpose as Damage Boosting Resource
• Kenki Now is only used for Filler Attacks and 2 Minute Busters
• Kenki Management got destroyed, there is no more thinking, no more planning to maximize damage output
• Merging Hissatsu: Senei with Hissatsu: Guren and Shoha with Mumyo Shoha would transform the Samurai into a Dragoon with Circle Geirskogul and Circle Nastrond and would betray the Fantasy Samurai is supposed to fulfill: A controlled High Burst Damage Dealer.
• Hissatsu: Kaiten wasn't restrictive, it was rewarding for Good Resource Management
• In my Opinion: Positionals are restrictive since they seem to put an unnecessary risk on the Player and waste serverspace through added calculations
• Circle Tenka Goken feels weird and weak since it always had been a Cone Attack, same with Warrior Overpower which now is a weak and redundant Mithril-Tempest...
• Iaijutsu feels unchanged since lvl50 since Kenki can't be utilized to Increase Iaijutsu Damage, Mastering Iaijutsu with lvl52 through Kenki Management is what Samurai is all about since the Reward felt right.

My Suggestions for Samurai Changes:

• If Auto-Crit is kept for Midare Setsugekka and Ogi Namikiri, make Kaiten do the following Weapon Skill do Direct Hit, thus rewarding Kenki Management with Direct Crit Damage
• If a Skill has to be deleted for "Button Bloat", it should be Tsubamegaeshi and roll it up to Iaijutsu (like Ninja's Bunshin turning into Kamaitachi)
• if none of those suggestions suit the design philosophy, I plea to at least reduce the Kenki-Cost of Shinten and Kyuten, sitting on 20 Kenki with no option feels horrible!

Not All 6.1 Changes of Samurai are Bad though:

• It's Good that Enpi doesn't eat Meikyo Shisui anymore
• The Increased Duration of Third Eye

[xAFROx]

And I would advocate that positionals be returned to kenki generation, Seigan and Kaiten be returned, and that kenki costs for all the skills be differentiated again so there's actual thought in how to spend each of the abilities rather than the surplus of kenki that exists.

Seigan can exist on top of Shinten. Senei and Guren being on 2 minute cooldowns made sense when they cost have an entire gauge.

The sad part is SAM actually still feels really satisfying at level 80 when Tsubame-Gaeshi is only at a single charge. I almost never notice it's on cooldown while going through the rotation, unlike at 90 where it always seems like it's still got 56 seconds left before a charge is comes back.

[RyuuZero]

well I have the feeling that Positionals might go away in 7.0, so you have to keep track about buffcombos and burstcombos, it would save calculation space on servers if they just have to take damage and combo damage into account, though I don't see Seigan making a comeback, much like Ageha, the Main Problem of Samurai right now is the non existent Kenki Synergy.. I mean Kenki at this point is just tagged on for Shinten ect... a Remnant of Kaiten that might go next on the chopping block ._.

[butchersblock]

And I would advocate that positionals be returned to kenki generation, Seigan and Kaiten be returned, and that kenki costs for all the skills be differentiated again so there's actual thought in how to spend each of the abilities rather than the surplus of kenki that exists.

Seigan can exist on top of Shinten. Senei and Guren being on 2 minute cooldowns made sense when they cost have an entire gauge.

The sad part is SAM actually still feels really satisfying at level 80 when Tsubame-Gaeshi is only at a single charge. I almost never notice it's on cooldown while going through the rotation, unlike at 90 where it always seems like it's still got 56 seconds left before a charge is comes back.

As much as I'd like for them to return, I highly doubt we're ever getting all that good stuff back unfortunately. I think even Kaiten returning would make me happy, and even that I find unlikely.

[RyuuZero]

As much as I'd like for them to return, I highly doubt we're ever getting all that good stuff back unfortunately. I think even Kaiten returning would make me happy, and even that I find unlikely.

I do argue that it would've been a better change to keep Kaiten but roll up Tsubamegaeshi into Iaijutsu, like Ninja's Bunshin becomes Kamaitachi (even though I think Huraijin would be a better fit for Kamaitachi than bunshin)

[Katsuragi_]

I usually omnitank, but I loved SAM and played it a ton when I wanted or needed to DPS. Now I honestly have no DPS that I want to play consistently. Closest is BLM, but the engagement level isn't even close. There's not a single thing that was removed from SAM that I'm happy about. And quite frankly I don't care for what was added either.

I enjoyed using Kaiten, and while you can say the "management" bit of it was not that big in the grand scheme of things. I enjoyed having to dance with the boss with my positionals too. All of it stacked up to require just enough focus to feel engaged while having a rhythm to the rotation. What SAM does now is just press a sequence of buttons while waiting for the big button. Oh and you press Shinten when the button is not greyed out.

All of this just to add my name to the number of people who are disappointed with this change.

[ThorneDynasty]

It really is at the point where kenki is so damn shallow it might actually just be better to remove that busywork of a bar entirely and wait for something better to turn up in 8.0 or whatever, huh.

Or are all the apologists still 100% convinced 7.0 will magically turn around every baffling design decision around and that by 7.1 we won't be having the exact same deflection argument that the it's the next expansion that will perfect everything?