Bring Back Kaiten

[RyuuZero]

That'd be the job right there. Maybe we can crowd-fund one of those high-quality foam builds of the new circular Tenka so the cosplayer can Fart of a Thousand Cuts while on-stage and maybe get that changed back too.

I thought about a lvl70 styled Samurai Glamour though with a:
回
天
on the back, so Yoshida and friends know what's up^^

[CelestiCer]

" Alninio: The only thing i'd bring back is Kaiten "

Another one.... Another one... Another one...

[RyuuZero]

1. turn Tsubamegaeshi into a follow Up to Iaijutsu, just how it is with Ogi Namikiri right now
2. turn Senei and Guren into buffs for Shinten and Kyuten, activated by Ikishoten

This solution really overcomplicates a very obvious solution to maintain a niche that is an very excessively rare problem currently?

Sorry if I'm coming back to this post but it really isn't that overcomplicating, basicly turn Ikishoten more into Warrior's Battlecry, just that Shinten becomes Senei and Kyuten becomes Guren.

when you decide to not hold your OGCD's. Need to not hit something? just don't cast your AoE it's that simple, which is very rare situation.

This is what I mean by saying "This is what the Dragoon does", The Dragoon would've to not use those skills, The Samurai on the otherhand sees the Situation and thinks 'I should not use this skill, so I use that skill instead'

It just sounds like two 2min discount Kaiten cooldown activations for Kyuten and Shinten. But, we can agree to disagree.

errr no? again think of it more like Ikishoten turning into Battlecry. My 2 Solutions free 3 skillslots by reincorperating them into approcriate buffs/changes to existing skills (which is enough to bring back Kaiten), now true my Solution would result into the restriction that you can't use Senei/Guren outside of Ikishoten.. but c'mon both 3skills are on 2minutes anyway. by merging the Shohas, you get rid of the ability to utilize the Meditation Stack resource in an explicit single target situation, which again totally fine for the Fantasy of the Dragoon, not so much for the Samurai.

I'm sorry if I trigger anger, which is not my intention. I just want to offer insight about my thoughts for the future of FFXIV's Samurai. I also wish you all a Merry Christmas.

[CelestiCer]

**snip**

We just have to agree to disagree.

Your 1st suggestion is sensible. Your 2nd one is not, which is Ikishoten buff? turning Senei/Guren into buffs? to apply to Shinten and Kyuten? Even if interpret Ikishoten turning Shinten/Kyuten buttons into Senei/Guren buttons through activation saving 2 buttons? I can see gameplay changes no one asked for? Normal Shinten weave cast obstruction which can be detrimental to our rotation, Guren/Senei now locked not behind 25 Kenki but Ikishoten which can be very bad for Fates and Dungeons when mobs die before we can cast all of it and making us lose a resource vs being able to hold it.


Compare that to the solution that many other Samurai's unanimously suggested and agree upon...

• 1. Iaijutsu and Tsubame are combined as 1 button
• 2. Shoha and Shoha II are combined as 1 button and skill
• 3. Senei and Guren are combined as 1 button and skill

Square's Button Bloat excuse? now can be solved by picking solution 1,2,3 or two solutions or all three solutions to give back Kaiten. And no matter what they pick? it wouldn't change our gameplay rotation at all except giving back Kaiten. And let me put an emphasis on " Rotation".

Your suggestions are unnecessarily overcomplicating a otherwise simple problem that plenty Samurai's suggested and many, even those on the Balance Discord already unanimously agree upon. And this is coming from Samurai players that quite literally " Breath Samurai rotation ".

But, then again any of this is a pipedream that Santa can't give us for Christmas, or any other mascot for any other Holiday.

[RyuuZero]

We just have to agree to disagree.

Your 1st suggestion is sensible. Your 2nd one is not, which is Ikishoten buff? turning Senei/Guren into buffs? to apply to Shinten and Kyuten? Even if interpret Ikishoten turning Shinten/Kyuten buttons into Senei/Guren buttons through activation saving 2 buttons? I can see gameplay changes no one asked for? Normal Shinten weave cast obstruction which can be detrimental to our rotation, Guren/Senei now locked not behind 25 Kenki but Ikishoten which can be very bad for Fates and Dungeons when mobs die before we can cast all of it and making us lose a resource vs being able to hold it.

I see so you do not use Ikishoten and Senei/Guren in conjunction, even though both are on a 2min cool down and will comeback at the same time..okay.. though I use Ikishoten and Senei/Guren in conjunction with my Big Kahuna Combo: Ogi Namikiri > Senei (for Single Target) or Guren (for AoE) > Kaeshi Namikiri (available every 2minutes) and it's quite a tasty combo! but let me clearly explain what I want with "turning Ikishoten into Battlecry":
looking at Battlecry: Battlecry gives you 50 points and turns Fell Cleave into Inner Chaos and Decimate into Chaotic Cyclone
looking at Ikishoten: Ikishoten gives you 50 points and activates the Ogi Trigger, so since Ikishoten and Senei aswell as Guren are on a 2minute cool down, they always comeback together if they're used in conjunction thus turning them into buffs for Shinten and Kyuten should be taken into consideration

[RyuuZero]

Compare that to the solution that many other Samurai's unanimously suggested and agree upon...

• 1. Iaijutsu and Tsubame are combined as 1 button
• 2. Shoha and Shoha II are combined as 1 button and skill
• 3. Senei and Guren are combined as 1 button and skill

Square's Button Bloat excuse? now can be solved by picking solution 1,2,3 or two solutions or all three solutions to give back Kaiten. And no matter what they pick? it wouldn't change our gameplay rotation at all except giving back Kaiten. And let me put an emphasis on " Rotation".

I do not get the Button Bloat Excuse.. since you have to make the decision: Shoha or Shoha II and same with Senei or Guren, how this fact is ignored is really telling, but combining Shoha/Shoha II turns them into Geirskogul but cycle, same with Senei/Guren which then would be like Wyrmwind Thrust which would result that the Samurai would've 2 Resources entirely AoE which would betray the Job Identity of The Samurai!

Your suggestions are unnecessarily overcomplicating a otherwise simple problem that plenty Samurai's suggested and many, even those on the Balance Discord already unanimously agree upon. And this is coming from Samurai players that quite literally " Breath Samurai rotation ".

Ahh I see breathing the Samurai rotation, maybe that's the Problem because since April'22 (and let's be honest) we're nauseatingly spamming Shinten like a bitch, which can corrode the brain, while we agree that Tsubamegaeshi shall be rolled up into Iaijutsu (because Ogi already does that) we must not reduce entire resources into sole Situations, that's what the Dragoon already does. Having a decision to make is what makes the Samurai.
So it is not to breath the Samurai rotation, because frankly the Samurai Rotation since 6.1 is a rotten piece of bullshit, we all agree that 6.08 Samurai was peak gameplay (even without guaranteed crits) but it is to breath in general, which FFXIV's Samurai isn't able to utilize in combat anymore and that sucks

[nguyentri11]

You don't want to combine Shoha/Shoha II or Senei/Guren because you don't want it to be like any other move that's a default AoE without a single target variant. And you're saying somehow that's SAM's identity(when there are several jobs that also have a single target and AoE variant of an action). But at the same time you suggest making Ikishoten to basically copy what Infuriate(Battlecry) does.

[RyuuZero]

yeah counterquestion: Is Ikishoten an Attack?
No, you use it for 50 Kenki and the Ogi Trigger, there is no decision to make, you use it when it's available/approcriate to combo into.

(when there are several jobs that also have a single target and AoE variant of an action)

you're talking about NIN's Bhava & Toad and WAR's Fell Cleave and Decimate, those are more an equivalent to Shinten and Kyuten, which is why I see the solution to address "Samurai's Button Bloat" in Warrior's Battlecry, I mean Senei is just a bigger Shinten on the same cooldown as Ikishoten, so why not reincorperate it that way? My Reasoning that this Stuff is an Important Part of the Samurai's Identity is founded by My Aikido Training, correct me if I'm wrong but: If you try to recreate/recapture/design a concept/playstyle/whatever and someone else who works on the real thing of what you recreate/recapture/design giving you the thumbsup, that's an indicator of doing the correct thing.
Which is why I see the Importance of Kaiten,
which is why I see the Importance of being aware of my surroundings,
which is why I see the Importance of Discovery and Mastery.
The DevTeam of FFXIV nailed those 3 points perfectly with the Samurai up to 6.08. Though since 6.1 it's just a Shinten Spamming Bitch and then seeing people wanting to haggle and bargain those Core Aspects in order to get back their Kaiten irks me sick.. wait Battlecry is Infuriate!?.. ugh damn you Samurai Champloo!!

[CelestiCer]

I see so you do not use Ikishoten and Senei/Guren in conjunction...

Yes and I said " for Fates and Dungeons when mobs die before we can cast all of it ". Specially when Group-Fate-Farming in say Elpis, this can happen, not all the time, but at times can because I like to line up mobs before I use Guren. Made worse by your suggestion since it's all loaded on Ikishoten activating everything vs just it hinging off of 25 Kenki. Emphesis on it being just " Dungeon mobs and Fates however... "

Most my activity is in Savage, and claiming I don't use Ikishoten and Senei in conjunction? Suggests I don't know how to play SAM or my rotation. Quite the subtle insult... that I'll take on the chin...

My FFlogs is public, and there is XIVanalysis. I am not flawless... but I know some Samurai's apparently use Meikyo + Yukikaze 1st then Kasha and Gekko religiously both as opener and in general which is very suboptimal. Found that out reviewing a free-styling Samurai from a friends static who dealt apparently less damage then a ranged-physical at times during P8S... wondering why they have issues meeting the damage check.

I admire your passion for sticking to your point, though we can't see eye to eye on it except for wanting Kaiten to return. Just agree to disagree.

[Vencio]

Suppose “Kaiten” does return…why not merge tge AoE abilities all the same all while retaining to most SAM abilities without as much ability pruning?

I can slightly agree to the logic then again I’ve always been in favour for pruning only enough but not a whole lot.