Relic News - 6.45

[ForteNightshade]

If you're paying your sub just to complain on the forums then fun fact, you're paying for a less useful twitter. I can't think of a bigger waste of money then keeping a sub going just to use the forum. Again I'll say, submit feedback all you like, but at the end of the day the only real vote you have as a consumer is your wallet. I'm sorry if that's not a useful answer for you.

Who said I was? Nowhere in my response did I even insinuate my sole motivation for remaining subscribed was simply to complain on the OF. In fact, this assumption gets thrown away a bit too liberally as a rebuttal. People can still enjoy aspects of the game while being critical. Speaking for myself now, I still enjoy raiding enough to have two separate characters; three if you include my split clear character. Ironically, it's everyone's favourite website that gives Savage longevity but that's where I find my fun. Which isn't to say I don't enjoy other content like crafting, mount farming and whatnot. I dabbled or actively play just about every piece of content. The problem is there still isn't nearly enough with any longevity. Once again, a third party website gives raiding more relevance than SE does. Now if Criterion had better rewards, you could argue that helps. Alas, it doesn't.

True, we could have gotten it without it being tied to the relic. And yet I like this relic more because it's tied to it.

Good for you? A good many don't. Hence the backlash. The difference is in the hypothetical scenario where you still get Hildibrand but the relic has actual depth to its progression both subs of players get something to do instead of just you.

How stupid, you realize the devs also look in the general feedback of other media outlets besides the forums right? They're not going to just look at what people shout here because you'd be focusing on a single echo chamber. This is an MMO with lots of avenues for expression so you saying that "I have to pay for a sub in order to submit feedback" is just...ridiculous. You can provide feedback anywhere and its very much also effective to do so in a place that garner's a lot of traction if you find the right post/thread or whatever.

While yes, they look at other outlets for feedback and opinions, the forums is their primary go to. Yoshida outright says as much; asking players to comment on the OF whenever they have concerns or feedback. That doesn't mean they're combing through each and every post nor did I assert as much anywhere in my response. They certainly aren't scouring through reddit or fan made websites. Outside of these forums, they'll occasionally listen to influencers who often share similar opinions to what's being echoed here. How do we know this? Look at nearly any major source of contention amongst the playerbase and when it was either acknowledged or solved.

Healer complaints were ablaze for years yet only when a near 300 liked thread was made on the OF did it get acknowledged in the actual Q&A. Only for Yoshida to dismissively say, "Go play Ultimate" after the question was poorly translated. They actually had the nerve to say they weren't getting enough feedback on ping issues regarding Hypercharge and Blood Weapon to feel it was a concern despite damn near hundreds of threads, comments and YouTube videos bemoaning how awful both skills were since Shadowbringers. Funny enough, when both NA and JP players flooded the Q&A thread criticising both abilities, they walked that statement back. Machinist still had to wait a whole two patches but their constant complaining on this forum is what got them noticed.

And those are just two examples from this expansion alone where they outright admitted to not knowing issues players had (or straight up not acknowledging them) until they were brought to the forums. There's a reason Sfia made a thread about Endgame gearing here rather then post on reddit or make a video despite being a streamer. That very conversation has been had several times pretty much everywhere. It's widely been a hot button topic that gear progression takes forever in this game. It's gone completely unacknowledged so he came to the forums... just Yoshida says to do with feedback. Now whether they ever listen to the criticism on loot is another matter entirely but they certainly weren't going to notice on Reddit.

[Xirean]

Who said I was? Nowhere in my response did I even insinuate my sole motivation for remaining subscribed was simply to complain on the OF. In fact, this assumption gets thrown away a bit too liberally as a rebuttal. People can still enjoy aspects of the game while being critical. Speaking for myself now, I still enjoy raiding enough to have two separate characters; three if you include my split clear character. Ironically, it's everyone's favourite website that gives Savage longevity but that's where I find my fun. Which isn't to say I don't enjoy other content like crafting, mount farming and whatnot. I dabbled or actively play just about every piece of content. The problem is there still isn't nearly enough with any longevity. Once again, a third party website gives raiding more relevance than SE does. Now if Criterion had better rewards, you could argue that helps. Alas, it doesn't.

Great so you have content that you like doing. I'm honestly not seeing the problem. Even the one you pointed out of longevity. All content in this game has an end point. Are you upset that you reached it? Why? What's the point of trying to achieve something if you never get to the achievement part? Also if your ability to use the forums is not a reason to be subbed then it's an irrelevant thing to bring up at all. I like using the forums, but my sole focus for my sub is the game. I stand by what I said. If you pay your sub for forum use, that's an enormous waste of money. If you don't do that then you brought up something that doesn't matter for....reasons?

Good for you? A good many don't. Hence the backlash. The difference is in the hypothetical scenario where you still get Hildibrand but the relic has actual depth to its progression both subs of players get something to do instead of just you.

You realize there's a lot of people that do actually like the way the relics work in this expansion right? You realize there's a lot of people that didn't like the way it worked in previous expansions right? Am I not allowed to be happy that the content for relics is something that I actually enjoy? Assuming you liked Bozja and Eureka then you got 2 expansions that appealed to you. Why is it suddenly a problem that it now appeals to a different aspect of the player-base?

[SaltyDaddy]

All content in this game has an end point

And thats when we should get.... please drum roll... new content. Whoah!

Also. I dont get your reasoning, that if a person enjoys one side of the game... cant really complain about other sides? Huh?

[Xirean]

And thats when we should get.... please drum roll... new content. Whoah!

Also. I dont get your reasoning, that if a person enjoys one side of the game... cant really complain about other sides? Huh?

When did I say something about people not being allowed to complain? Submit all the feedback you want. But if you're going to post on a public forum, don't be surprised when people respond.

As for the topic of getting new content, we do. Consistently. It might not be at fast pace but we do get new content. All of it might not be of interest to you which is why my go to suggestion is to play what does appeal to you then when you get bored, take a break. I have no interest in pvp, savage, or ultimates. If one was released that suddenly did appeal to me then I'd be happy and play it, otherwise I ignore it. I'm genuinely not sure of the issue here.

[SaltyDaddy]

When did I say something about people not being allowed to complain? Submit all the feedback you want. But if you're going to post on a public forum, don't be surprised when people respond.

As for the topic of getting new content, we do. Consistently. It might not be at fast pace but we do get new content. All of it might not be of interest to you which is why my go to suggestion is to play what does appeal to you then when you get bored, take a break. I have no interest in pvp, savage, or ultimates. If one was released that suddenly did appeal to me then I'd be happy and play it, otherwise I ignore it. I'm genuinely not sure of the issue here.

Your responses so far were "Dont complain/Unsub/there is no problem to be found". Those are not discussion adding responses. People are not surprised by responses, but... how blant they are. By this point, you are just a troll, thats not worth a discussion about. Some of your post you are even contradicting yourself in the same sentence. I dont get you. Are you seriously trying to somehow make people, who are not happy with the game... happy by saying, there is no problem? Are you type of person, who tells "be happy" to someone with depressions? It looks like that. Just answer me, what are you trying to archieve by your comments.

[Striker44]

Your responses so far were "Dont complain/Unsub/there is no problem to be found". Those are not discussion adding responses. People are not surprised by responses, but... how blant they are. By this point, you are just a troll, thats not worth a discussion about. Some of your post you are even contradicting yourself in the same sentence. I dont get you. Are you seriously trying to somehow make people, who are not happy with the game... happy by saying, there is no problem? Are you type of person, who tells "be happy" to someone with depressions? It looks like that. Just answer me, what are you trying to archieve by your comments.

Well, given how that commentary would best apply precisely to you, I'm not sure how anyone can see you as anything but a troll and your attempt at commentary as anything but bait.

[Stormpeaks]

Well, given how that commentary would best apply precisely to you, I'm not sure how anyone can see you as anything but a troll and your attempt at commentary as anything but bait.

And you are one the biggest white knights on this forum, always ready to defend this game from any sort of criticism.

That perfectly applies to you too : )

[Xirean]

Your responses so far were "Dont complain/Unsub/there is no problem to be found". Those are not discussion adding responses. People are not surprised by responses, but... how blant they are. By this point, you are just a troll, thats not worth a discussion about. Some of your post you are even contradicting yourself in the same sentence. I dont get you. Are you seriously trying to somehow make people, who are not happy with the game... happy by saying, there is no problem? Are you type of person, who tells "be happy" to someone with depressions? It looks like that. Just answer me, what are you trying to archieve by your comments.

My responses have never been "don't complain" or "there is no problem to be found". I've consistently said that if you want to give feedback, then do so. I've also stated that I don't see the problem. That's not saying there isn't one, but rather that what is being labeled a "problem" I don't see as a problem. I do stand by the "unsub" advice though. If you're not having fun with a luxury product then you shouldn't continue to pay for it. I really don't understand why so many people seem to be allergic to that simple concept.

Also if you think I'm contradicting myself in the same sentence then please site it.

[Absimiliard]

I do stand by the "unsub" advice though. If you're not having fun with a luxury product then you shouldn't continue to pay for it. I really don't understand why so many people seem to be allergic to that simple concept.

Because you and just about everyone else tossing out that tidbit of "advice" on the forums are doing so despite being fully aware that most people willing to criticize the game still have a vested interest in it. In other words, it's an exceedingly disingenuous way of trying to silence criticism from behind the veil of, "well, it's okay to quit if you're not having fun," regardless of whether or not people still have aspects of the game they enjoy. Which, fairly obviously they do if they're still subbed. You can play a product with a significant number of components you no longer enjoy and still find some joy in it.

Some people don't like the direction the game is going, and those people probably will quit once it reaches a point where the things they still enjoy have been taken away from them. Simple as that.

[caffe_macchiato]

I do stand by the "unsub" advice though. If you're not having fun with a luxury product then you shouldn't continue to pay for it.

Fully agreed. More people should consider unsubscribing given that it's our only means of recourse.

As a side note, FFXIV is the only major consumer product that actively encourages people to avoid it. And we all like that, right? I think FFXIV is the anti-consumerist message we all need to hear in 2023. Consume less, spend less. Nowhere else would they allow people to actively campaign against a company's products, but this is FFXIV where that's considered a virtue. Let's hope that Square Enix takes the hint and takes the game offline, effectively making everyone unsubscribe so they can play other games (just like Yoshida wants).