Length MSQ from all the expansions - it is getting insane

[Thaciscokidd]

snip

I don't know if you were around in 1.0 but even with its problems I had fun. Yeah it failed but there are some stuff that I experienced up until the closing event(which is still the best even in FF14 in my opinion) that I enjoyed and there are 1.0 private servers out there in the void so I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

I'm not trying to go either one way or the other. I love 14 and WoW. There are things that I've missed out in both games and yeah I do wish that they would come back (or that I didn't have to pay extra to get it) but there is no sugar coating it both are guilty.

[VelKallor]

It may very well ...now. What my emphasis is that they have NOT learned from those same mistakes they have made in the past and in many areas are doubling down on them. Im pointing out the glaring errors of judgement they have made..and CONTINUE to make. I wont gild the lily nor hold back.

This is NOTHING compared to what I said on the WOW forums.

Each and every mistake they have was avoidable. Each and every screwup was 100% preventable..had they listened.

We don't want disgruntled WoW players, they just act like XIV is the greatest thing ever made because it's not WoW.

I never said it was , ever. I said it is FAR BETTER. That is my individual opinion, little else. When things get to the point where one more failure means walking away, thats where I got to. Each of us has out breaking point..and I refuse to give any more money or to support a company who will not learn from their own mistakes..especially when said mistake was made AFTER they had been told repeatedly by the feedback they had asked for "Dont do this"

And nobody cares how cohesive the story is over a decade, it has absolutely shit on everything some of us wanted out of it anyway. It may be cohesive to the characters, but it's not even remotely coherent. We just want to actually play a game with our friends now, not force them to read a sub-par manga for 300 hours. The MSQ just got way out of hand and turned into what it is. We didn't expect it to keep going without any extension to new players past 'Story Skip'.

You may not. Others do.

Story isn't even that good anymore, why you acting like it's the greatest thing since The Shawshank Redemption. You act like us traveling to the end of the universe and killing mega-satan is good writing. lol

Asked and answered.

I don't want to run around with the same band of characters anymore. It's played out. I'm bored. I'm done with Alphinaud. These characters should have died and stayed dead. At least then it'd actually have an impact on the story for once. Instead of it always being "Somehow X survived!"

Then go ahead and skip it. Be my guest. Your loss.

"they removed bits of the story, wow sucks !!!!!" is basically everything that Vel says

A bit?

I posted a link of the MASSIVE amount of content they have literally wiped out of existence.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...rds-of-Draenor

https://www.wowhead.com/forums/topic...taclysm-169564

Legendary ring quest will no longer be obtainable. Progress toward the ring will almost 100% be entirely removed from your quest log once Legion hits

Heres whats been removed by zone

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Cat...ontent_by_zone

That, Stormpeaks, is one very, very long list.

[Lukha]

You know what I expected? The thing that most series writers and even original FF writers do, they section things off and make them relatively contained by allowing individual story progression with some or even no overlap. You build a world, you write stories within the world. You don't need to write 1 story for the whole world and every event being the same thread.

Can I get
C: Stop writing all systems and story linearly for a decade

Apparently you can get that in most series and even other FFs(though I don't know which, since all the FFs I've played have been pretty linear, it's pretty much a hallmark of the series), so why is it such a problem that this game isn't doing it?

Like, I'm not going to tell anyone to go away, but if something that is a defining factor to the series and this game frustrates you so badly, maybe you'd have a better time playing something else? Especially if most other writers out there don't do the specific things this one does that frustrate you?

Complaining about Final Fantasy being story-driven and linear is kind of like reading a BL manga and getting mad that there's an m/m romance, or complaining about a tournament arc in a shounen anime. You're choosing to consume something that is known for a particular feature and then getting mad when it has that feature.

[Sotaris]

I have to ask: When did you first start playing? I feel like a lot of the complaints are from people who know how the game used to be.

Technically during the 1.0 beta but quit before the game closed down for various reasons, moving, and starting a new job. RL stuff you know.
Came back shortly after ARR launched, so I would call myself a veteran of the game.

So, are there changes I disliked over the years?

- 100%. I preferred when crafting and gathering weren't so accessible and was a little more RNG involved than hitting 1-2 macros for 100% HQ from NQ materials.
- Or the old housing system, but I understand I'm a minority in that belief, and something had to change as the player population grew.
- Or the old MCH in HW with a casting bar, it was an interesting system
- Or when we have a TP bar, I liked the micromanaging part of it
- Or old SMN, with managing your pet and using dots, I really enjoyed that playstyle and am not a big fan of the new pokemon style SMN
- Or what relic quest was like in ARR, I much prefer the good old FATE grind and doing books over what we had up to this point (haven't started on the relics for EW)


I have played the game pretty consistently since late 2013/early 2014 with a smaller break here and there.

How do you beat an MMORPG?

Let me repeat for you: nobody cares about stories in a mmo except ff14 players, its not a issue in other games because if people want to play a coherent story, they play single player story game. All you say is "i want to pay a monthly sub to play a dumbed down single player story"

People care about the story cause it is a mainline Final Fantasy game, the story is what is marketed and has been an expectation from day 1.
When I started playing Wow during BC, I didn't expect an immersive storyline, I knew gameplay was the selling point, and the lore from Warcraft games.

That's not to say people subscribe to an online game solely for the story (especially in an FF MMORPG), but it's a big deal for many players. As I already stated in this thread, the story is very good for an MMORPG and it's apparent that the dev team feels this way too, otherwise they wouldn't spend so much time on storyboards and deliver it to us.

[Shinkuno]

Eh, idk, I can level through FFXIV from 1 - 90 and have a cohesive story. WoW? I was lost about 5 minutes in, and it never got better. I was going back/forward in time, meeting characters for the first time that pretended I was some hero they had known for ever (I just met them), etc. You can easily shoot WoW over that kind of stuff compared to 1.0 stuff that is explained/mentioned in-game, and seeing some grass doesn't equate to the nonsense that your exposed to in WoW.

Let me repeat for you: nobody cares about stories in a mmo except ff14 players, its not a issue in other games because if people want to play a coherent story, they play single player story game. All you say is "i want to pay a monthly sub to play a dumbed down single player story"

Edit: forgot GW2 and ESO players exist. But at least GW2 has enough content to make it still feel like an MMO. And ESO players are just coping over their shitty combat anyway.

[VelKallor]

Let me repeat for you: nobody cares about stories in a mmo except ff14 players

Im sorry, Shinkuno, but from my own experiences, and other games I have played, I disagree. many have commented on narrative being just as important as gameplay. Doesnt matter what "big bad' you are up against, its meaningless unless you know why you fight.

[R041]

People care about the story cause it is a mainline Final Fantasy game, the story is what is marketed and has been an expectation from day 1.

No? It was not advertised as a linear story driven single-player MORPG. It was, and continues to be advertised as an MMORPG. Take a look at every single ad for it. Does it ever describe the game as linearly story-driven?

No. It's advertised as an MMO, where you go on adventures with your friends online. Has always been advertised as such, and during ARR-HW, it even played as such.

We expected good writing and set pieces in a Final Fantasy world. But we didn't expect another Single-Player FF game. It's just been devolving into that.


https://youtu.be/h542YbZuwkQ
https://youtu.be/SfFucIuuw2I
https://youtu.be/hf3cCkM9M84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8aS43vOSUU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-lsLrRTCh0
https://youtu.be/emVE9cTIyzQ
https://youtu.be/4ei3OSTHZVM


It's like they're afraid to actually advertise the game as it actually is. These ads were true in ARR, but it doesn't reflect that anymore. They just making shit up.



I never feel like I'm my own person in XIV anymore, I'm a premade WOL, with a premade party, in a premade linear everything.

[Stormpeaks]

Im sorry, Shinkuno, but from my own experiences, and other games I have played, I disagree. many have commented on narrative being just as important as gameplay. Doesnt matter what "big bad' you are up against, its meaningless unless you know why you fight.

That is literally wrong on so many levels, a really small amount of players care about "why" they fight x boss in most MMO's, they really dont, FFXIV is the only exception to that, which is why there are these toxic "story" defenders, because no other MMO's players actually care, and that's also why the boost is almost first on sale every week.

People care about the story cause it is a mainline Final Fantasy game, the story is what is marketed and has been an expectation from day 1.

As mentioned above, its advertised as an MMORPG, not as a story game. That is the reason why people play it, to play with friends. It's an MMO.

[Sotaris]

which is why there are these toxic "story" defenders, because no other MMO's players actually care, and that's also why the boost is almost first on sale every week.

What is so toxic? Feels like people throw around this term so easily these days.

[Lukha]

Let me repeat for you: nobody cares about stories in a mmo except ff14 players, its not a issue in other games because if people want to play a coherent story, they play single player story game. All you say is "i want to pay a monthly sub to play a dumbed down single player story"

Edit: forgot GW2 and ESO players exist. But at least GW2 has enough content to make it still feel like an MMO. And ESO players are just coping over their shitty combat anyway.

You might be right that nobody but FFXIV players care about story in an MMO...but this is FFXIV and FFXIV players care about story in our MMO. It's a selling point and key feature which many people enjoy or at least don't mind, considering the game has been quite successful for a while now.

Sooo what do you want SE to do? Piss off its existing loyal playerbase to please people who don't like a core component of their product that sets them apart from the competition?

And how exactly do they even go about pleasing you in this situation, considering that they already offer the option to skip past all that boring story - for a price. They're not going to give up the $$ they make from story skips for people with short attention spans, especially considering the story is at least 80% of the content in this game, meaning that people who skip it are unlikely to end up paying subscription fees for very long once they get bored of the 'endgame'