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  1. #1
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestiCer View Post
    Best designed DPS is probably BLM now, or even Job.
    I'm always surprised when people say this because I absolutely hate BLM.

    Honestly, RDM is probably the best designed one. It's been around since SB (4.0 vs BLM's 2.0), but it essentially...hasn't changed since then. They've tinkered with the mana costs and Manafication so you can get in a triple combo, but the core rotation is the same, and even that isn't something you WEREN'T trying to do (double combo) before anyway. Manafication also is a 110 sec CD, not a 120, allowing it to drift around and it isn't locked to the 2 min meta, not much more than BLM, anyway. While the Manafication change SEEMS like simplification (since it's just 50/50 not "double" and thus not variable), because of how you use it to maximize your burst when you can, it actually produces a higher skill ceiling.

    It's the epitome of "easy to learn, hard to master", as it's immediately understandable from a quick tooltip read what you're trying to do on the Job at a base level (short cast -> long cast, use Fire/Stone instead of Jolt when possible, get your Mana slightly unbalanced but not too much, use melee combo; repeat), while having nuance to truly master it.

    How has its abilities changed? Well, in ShB (its first expansion) it got Scorch added. Pressing Jolt after your combo. (And Reprise, but no one uses that) In EW (its second expansion) it got Resolution added. Pressing Jolt...again. Oh, and Magicked Barrier and Acceleration being changed to a modified Swiftcast to make Reprise even more meaningless.

    Where BLM has had various additions like Enochian, Triplecast, and Polyglot stacks that changed its rotation, execution, and somewhat how you play the Job (seriously, go look at The Balance's BLM optimal rotation while leveling breakdown across the level ranges where every few levels, the optimal changes completely, and does so at each level cap, and none of those are the same as the level 90 optimal, meaning the optimal rotation has changed every expansion), RDM has remained essentially the same since its inception.

    The only issue it's ever had is tuning, and that's because the Devs overvalue Verraise, and not a problem with the Job's design itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by therpgfanatic View Post
    DRG has very excellent burst but I agree, playing it right now has way, way too many buttons to press. If I don't die to mechanics because a jump is locking me into place then I die because I am focusing too much on my hotbar that I can't pay attention to what is going on around me. SAM has this issue, too.

    FFXIV has become the MMO king of ability bloat.

    ...
    Mostly agree with this (and some of the rest, but focusing on this). It's not always true, but I do think there's a lot of ability bloat and a lot of overly complicated rotations where the game is more about muscle memory while dancing than it is about intelligent use of abilities or consideration of situations. Ironically the only role that still has any semblance of independent thought is also the most maligned, Healers, since they can actually consider which ability to use. They may "all do the same thing" (not, but "all deal with the situation in different ways" is probably accurate), but considering/planning CDs already requires more thought than most DPS rotations, which are just "do the rotation for 12 minutes straight, don't step in bad, win". Outside of some very specific situations where you need to know when to do something like slightly delay burst, there's not thought in executing 1-2-3 and pressing 5 on CD.

    .

    THAT.
    SAID:

    I firmly believe there should be different Jobs for different players. I love RDM, I like SMN, I hate BLM. This is fine. I don't want BLM changed to suit me just as I wouldn't want RDM changed way from what I like to suit someone else. A lot of people like DRG. For all its bloat and clunk, it's CONSISTENT, unlike proc based Jobs (like DNC or RDM or BRD) and it doesn't have a lot of gauges and DoTs and juggling upkeep stuff (your main upkeep buff is autopilot upkept just by doing your rotation). For people that want to learn a thing and do it the same every time, DRG is going to be appealing, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Different Jobs for different people/types of people. I think that's what everyone needs to embrace. If a Job isn't for you...well, don't play it, then. There are a lot of different Jobs with different feels and playstyles. Find the ones that suit yours. Does that mean sometimes you don't get the aesthetic you want? It might...but if they bend that one Job you really like the look of but not the mechanics of to suit you, then where does it end? Do they rob other players of Jobs they like? Do they let other people ask that every Job be made to suit them, even if that means you won't like them anymore?

    Better that we have lots of diversity and let people self-sort to the ones they like best. If the aesthetic is the most important, you can adapt to the Job's mechanics. If the mechanics are the most important, you can find a Job that suits you mechanically and stick with that. Everyone wins.
    (2)
    Last edited by Renathras; 04-01-2023 at 11:53 AM. Reason: EDIT for length

  2. #2
    Player
    CelestiCer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
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    6.08 Hissatsu: Kaiten Give it back !!! obviously, mhm.
    Posts
    879
    Character
    Celesti Cer
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Renathras View Post
    I'm always surprised when people say this because I absolutely hate BLM. / -snip- /
    Honestly, RDM is probably the best designed one.
    My reasonings is because RDM has had way more issues throughout its existence then BLM from my PoV and I only played since Shadowbringers Expansion.

    Plagued with Ranged Tax that BLM notices less of at the high end due to performance numbers, RDM also on-top of that feel Utility Tax that many RDM players have noted. Though that makes RDM good in prog? as does dying against Raidwides since Magick barrier is nice for the party? not so much to RDM's getting blown up vs BLM's stronger Mana-Ward for themselves. Unironically due to the nature of RDM's skill-kit not having it's Melee Thrust and Back-Dash available nor can cast it whenever they please? RDM has less mobility options vs BLM, even when RDM does less damage. And most of this is me saying it viewing it from Savage, in normal content you can mess up with any Job all you want and most of these issues are less noticeable.

    You could argue RDM is designed well, plays unique, is true to being a caster, and reps having utility and all I am nitpicking are number tweaks? but even with tweaks, I just think RDM can be a lot better and has had a lot more problems that require some QOL changes in its design vs BLM being honestly borderline perfect in comparison.
    (10)

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