BLM DPS

[Ransu]

in aDPS-nDPS with the first melee (excluding the sam) it has a gap of about 5% while with casters it is 10%. In rDPS being that it has no buffs, it is in line with melee rDPS and has a 5% gap with casters. (considering the 90th). I actually find that quite fair

And imo that is too low of a spread. BLM should be much further away from the melee.

[VictorSpoils]

my point is not that BLM do not do damage.....

I know that BLM have a nice DPS quite even with other DPS class...

My point is that Why shoud a group take a BLM (with a good DPS like a lot of other class, yes BUT no other advantage) vs all the other class that do the SAME DPS but have some advantage...(SMN, RDM, NIN, RPR, BRD, etc .....)

So because BLM bring NOTHING more, i think BLM shoud do more DPS that other class

(and i don't speak about DPS on a dummy.....)

Because having a caster makes everyone 1% stronger and it's stronger than SMN and RDM.

[Lyth]

I'll be really curious to see what happens next expansion if another 'non-utility caster' is added. Introducing in new jobs into a role invariably brings up insecurities and turf wars (as we've seen this expansion). Whenever players start comparing subjective experiences around 'job difficulty' to leverage more dps, you invariably see a simplifying rework get introduced. ('Oh, your job is more difficult than all the rest, you say? Well, why don't we just rework that instead of giving you a dps advantage over everyone else.')

The main reason why BLM has been so consistently successful to date is specifically because its players are fairly chill about the difficulty level and don't go out of their way to demand extra advantages for it. It's never been reworked as a result. As a result, the job is allowed to keep building on what it had previously, rather than having to recover from a rework/reset. If this mindset changes, though, the job is very quickly going to come into the rework crosshairs.

We saw this exact scenario play out already with a certain melee dps job and a certain deleted action this expansion. You know where this road leads. The choice is yours.

[Bubos123]

First of all, I believe BLM should deal more damage given its difficulty. The thing is SE just wanted to promote melee jobs since Endwalker and made them top in terms of damage output. But something you mentioned is wrong:
1. A good but not perfect metric for comparing damage output is rdps. SAM has nearly the same rdps as other melee classes, and BLM is slightly lower than melee but significantly higher than RDM&SMN. Classes like SAM, BLM&MCH don’t have raid buffs but can deal more damage by themselves.
2. Other than raid buffs, if you’re saying some classes have rez and mit and it’s a great advantage. My opinion is it really depends. Generally these would be an advantage over other classes. However in many hardcore contents they’re not as useful as you may think. For example, in W1 prog of P8S, dps check is much more a problem than mitigation, so I’d say BLM is optimal rather than SMN&RDM. And both BLM and SAM have a personal mitigation, which can be more useful than group mitigation occasionally.

[CelestiCer]

You want a M.Ranged job for Party Bonus Buff and BLM are also desired for their High DPS. BLM in the Current 6.35 patch, can clear any content, thus the need for more DPS becomes more of a want.

Square said " DPS performance is based off of Job difficulty ". Players generally agree that to be BLM. Then why isn't BLM just top-dog of everything? Fight-Designs and players requiring to channel teamwork to allow BLM positioning for maximum DPS output out of the BLM. This is why BLM has the largest variance out of any DPS Job in performance.

Perhaps Square uses different metrics to constitute what a difficult DPS Job is compared to us Players. If Square based Job difficulty off of...

• Melee uptime and positionals
• Highest APM(CPM)
• Rotation with most total Cast-Time
• Rotation with most amount of cast with Cast-Times
• Rotation with pressing the most amount of different buttons

Then the most difficult DPS Job isn't BLM it would be SAM. Although Square contradicts their metric statement with giving Samurai at least 7 simplifications, so this is a load of horse(beep!). Square's statements are often so contradicting, it's hard to take them serious.

Mastering difficulty of a Job should be rewarded. Unless they take away everything that made Jobs complex, then the only thing left to reward is that you paid your subscription. The only Job left that hasn't been smothered with overbearing simplifications is BLM. Perhaps were hung up to much on the numbers when Yoshi just wants you to experience different gameplay and having a BLM in the party does just that regardless of its performance. Who knows...

After-all it's not about what we think should be right about our Jobs, its what Square thinks what's right about their Jobs.

[Ggwppino]

my point is not that BLM do not do damage.....

I know that BLM have a nice DPS quite even with other DPS class...

My point is that Why shoud a group take a BLM (with a good DPS like a lot of other class, yes BUT no other advantage) vs all the other class that do the SAME DPS but have some advantage...(SMN, RDM, NIN, RPR, BRD, etc .....)

So because BLM bring NOTHING more, i think BLM shoud do more DPS that other class

(and i don't speak about DPS on a dummy.....)

In my opinion the point of view is wrong. The rDPS (damage considering buff) of the blm, even without buff, is still far greater than the other casters. Rightly since it is more complex to optimize it.
So if a party has to choose to bring an expert blm or an expert rdm, the expert blm is better to pass the checks more easily. In addition, an expert blm, can replace any melee Clearly this is a consideration for a hypothetical clear.
For a prog it might actually be different because there might be other considerations: ress available if potentially more useful than rDPS and/or speed with which you can actually optimize damage during newly learned mechanics for example. So even if you add rDPS, these considerations still apply.

[Turtledeluxe]

In my opinion the point of view is wrong. The rDPS (damage considering buff) of the blm, even without buff, is still far greater than the other casters. Rightly since it is more complex to optimize it.
So if a party has to choose to bring an expert blm or an expert rdm, the expert blm is better to pass the checks more easily. In addition, an expert blm, can replace any melee Clearly this is a consideration for a hypothetical clear.
For a prog it might actually be different because there might be other considerations: ress available if potentially more useful than rDPS and/or speed with which you can actually optimize damage during newly learned mechanics for example. So even if you add rDPS, these considerations still apply.

I like how you add in the utility if RDM to undermine your own post and highlight TCs concerns.

TC you aren't going to get any support on the forum. The player base isn't concerned with balancing the game. The average player likes that combat is a free for all DPS zerg now because to the average player that's "fun".

Like this post is basically saying "Oh do you have a problem? Well just be an expert (which is different for any given raider) . For other classes, utility will help you stay relevant."

[Ggwppino]

I like how you add in the utility if RDM to undermine your own post and highlight TCs concerns.

TC you aren't going to get any support on the forum. The player base isn't concerned with balancing the game. The average player likes that combat is a free for all DPS zerg now because to the average player that's "fun".

Like this post is basically saying "Oh do you have a problem? Well just be an expert (which is different for any given raider) . For other classes, utility will help you stay relevant."

I'm sorry, I can't follow your argument
The blm has to compete with 2 casters that have ress, it's factual, and it's a situation they will always have, even if they have infinite dps. There will be statics that will prefer to be more cautious and have some ress and there will be statics that will prefer not to have problems once they get to enrage because they will have so much more dps. Am I saying the wrong things? I do not think so. Also I'm attributing to blm the fact that it's a class that has a much more complex optimization than the other classes, and here again I don't think I'm wrong. Not for this the blm, having the same damage if not higher than that of melees, currently can very well replace a melee in a party. I'm doing it wrong? I do not think. I'm also stating that with the same skill the blm overpowers any other caster in rDPS, even without buffs, I don't think I'm wrong.

[Turtledeluxe]

I'm sorry, I can't follow your argument
The blm has to compete with 2 casters that have ress, it's factual, and it's a situation they will always have, even if they have infinite dps. There will be statics that will prefer to be more cautious and have some ress and there will be statics that will prefer not to have problems once they get to enrage because they will have so much more dps.

Then the solution is to give BLM some kind of utility-not telling every BLM player they have to be the top tier best performers in the game in order to make their class barely worth playing based on a few % points you calculated for the Omega Protocol. That isn't relevant to the average player experience anyway. Players are dismissive of any kind of solution for BLM because they don't want their own classes to lose their utility and/or DPS edge they currently have. Also BLM aren't just competing with ranged casters-- I'm not sure why you frame it that way. This is a DPS forum-- DPS roles are being compared in general. Framing it as a BLM vs RDM debate just narrows the scope of things to avoid having a larger discussion about the major problems of this game's gameplay today.

You're also hyper focusing on damage and utility as metrics. Don't forget mobility. Yes BLM has mobility if you know what you're doing, but overall the play style is focused on being static to maintain DPS. That doesn't appeal just everyone. DPS balance appears to be driven by the theory that "well if one job has top DPS, everyone will play that job" but that isn't true. People generally play jobs because of the way the job feels AND the role they play. Reaper may do less damage than BLM on average but there are tons of reapers, because of the aesthetic and how it feels to play. We keep pretending making classes like BLM and SAM indisputable top DPS is an issue when it really isn't. And actually for this reason I'd say that your claim that "utility is something BLM will always have to deal with" is off. If BLM had a decent enough edge in DPS, that alone would be the motivator to play it. The motivator right now is-- umm well do you like to stand still, have a harder time proggging, etc?

And unfortunately there really is no going back imo. SE has started on this path of simplifying all jobs, making DPS very close in range between everyone, so now everyone feels entitled to it. This isn't just an issue in TOP but for casual content...tanks and healers prioritize DPS over their roles in gameplay. It's larger conversation happening and people blame every random thing except the issue staring us in the face-- the roles make no sense in this game anymore overall and you can just faceroll the content.

[Ggwppino]

Then the solution is to give BLM some kind of utility-not telling every BLM player they have to be the top tier best performers in the game in order to make their class barely worth playing based on a few % points you calculated for the Omega Protocol.

We're talking high-level content, I expect the skill level to be commensurate (for any class). You play with 7 other people who want to clear, it's just respect. Then in this case it depends on the static and to make it clear immediately that you can't guarantee a certain level of optimization, each static has the right to make his own considerations. But that's not the point and it never wanted to be. I wanted to underline how difficult the blm is to optimize but playing the class you are aware of this fact. And if you don't get to a certain degree of optimization, you can't expect to do the same damage as a dps that is highly optimizing. So when I compared rdm and blm experts because it is the closest parameter to be able to say that in any case the optimization of the blm is paid. (I didn't compare it with the smn because that would have been a joke.)

The post was born, with the wrong consideration. It's one thing to say that the blm does equal damage to the other casters but the other casters also have buffs, so the post is implying that the other casters' rDPS is actually higher, which is not true, It is one thing to say that the level of optimization complexity is not well rewarded. (proportionate pay? too little pay? Let's discuss)

Also BLM aren't just competing with ranged casters-- I'm not sure why you frame it that way. This is a DPS forum-- DPS roles are being compared in general.

because in the game blm competes for the caster spot. And unlike the other casters, it can also compete for the second spot of melee.

Don't forget mobility

w8, if the blm is considered one of the most difficult classes to optimize, it is also because of its mobility. When you play the class, you know very well that it will be complicated to adapt to the mechanics because from level 1 you are put in the condition that you cannot move.

If BLM had a decent enough edge in DPS, that alone would be the motivator to play it.

And it already is. The blm is a class that does a lot of damage, certainly more than other casters, and not by such an indifferent percentage. So even if it gets more damage, it will not change the situation blm already has.