Healers, then and now:

[Renathras]

Alright, now that all that's done...

[HB]- dots and management of them is often one of the highest skillcap mechanics in a game like this.

Okay, I feel like this really is a "how you view it" thing. For a single target fight - which, let's face is, is what everything is balanced and focused on; LARGELY no one's talking about trash pulls in a 4 man or CT 24 man - it's binary. The only time that ANY thought needs to go into it AT ALL is when the boss is about to be untargetable or die, which happen relatively few times in most fights, and once you know the correct answer, it's ALWAYS the correct answer and goes back to being binary. Again, there's no system in place that gives you an alternate playstyle for deviating from the binary "correct vs wrong". It's not "one of the highest skillcap mechanics in a game like this" because it REQUIRES SKILL.

What the issue is is that DoTs are VERY BAD TO TRACK in the native UIs of literally every MMO ever made. FFXI, WoW, name an MMO with DoTs and we can probably find that people made add-ons to track DoT timers because the native UI was terrible at showing you when your DoTs were about to fall off. I still can't find a way to get my DoTs to show up in any way I can see them well on my screen or my Focus bar (the latter of which I have just to the side from the middle of my screen and at max size - sometimes my DoT doesn't even show up on it, it definitely isn't always on the left), and if we're talking AOE, there's literally NO WAY to see what your DoT timers are for any more than two targets. For the second Euphro fight, I focus target one of them and then main target the other and try to refresh my DoT at about the same time so they should be up again at the same time, but that's a workaround for the fact that DoT's are HORRIBLY badly tracked on native UIs.

You can tell a massive difference in MMOs based around DoTs or with DoT classes between the players using an add-on and those not. In WoW, you can configure them (WeakAuras was famously customizable) to tell you when your buffs (though those show up in party lists, at least) and debuffs were about to fall off, and you could tell a huge change in player "skill" based on merely whether a player had a DoT tracker or not.

I don't think that's a "skill" issue.

In theory, Snapshotting is a thing, but (a) the Devs seem to actually hate that and (b) with 2 min meta, it's stupidly easy as long as you're using everything on CD/refreshing on duration.

if they wanted to make it a 2charge burst GCD like phlegma, that's fine by me. others might complain about 'homogenization' though. i do think WHM doesn't really suit the idea of 'dots', i feel like it's aesthetic is more about burst so i can see it going either way

I find this far more agreeable.

the dots dont have to be a divisor of 120 do they?

Are DoTs no longer snapshotted? If not, then I guess they don't, it just makes things smooth and not feel like you're fighting pointless clunk. Does Iron Jaws reapply DoTs or does it extend their duration (e.g. letting you ride a Snapshot high)?

Either way, it's nicer when things break into 15/30/60/120/180 sec divisions. 18 just "feels" too short.

The problem with it being TOO short is you have to worry about people fighting refreshing their DoT or healing a critical person, which is something the Healer rotations are designed to AVOID. The Devs really don't want a "choose to damage or heal" dynamic. They want a "you're a healer first, DPS when no healing is needed" dynamic. I know some PLAYERS don't want that, but the design goal is that.

i even had nin in mind when i thought about it. a mini burst at 1min, and a bigger burst for the 2min window. trick and mug.

The problem here is that PoM isn't a party buff. So this would be more like using Fight or Flight then 60 seconds later, using Fight or Flight + Requiescat. Which is just...kinda silly.

Eye into Protraction is actually a really good idea and im angry i didnt think of it,

You know...it makes me irrationally happy that you like that idea. \o/

"Step Brothers (6/13) Best Movie Quote - Did we just become best friends? (2008)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-ZUDtaGf3I

Protect evolving to Plenary also works, though i'm not sure about the 6s duration you listed at lower levels, 10s would be fine,

I'm not picky about it, I just (a) want Protect back and (b) was using an "upgrade path" like what Shelltron, Raw Intuition, and Heart of Stone do. They start with a 6 sec duration then upgrade to 8 with a second layer for the first 4. But honestly, just making it 10 the whole time works. I figure half the protection of Temperance (5% vs 10%) for half the CD (60 sec vs 120 sec), and it's honestly the one thing _I_ feel that WHM is missing from its kit. Every other Healer has AT LEAST 3 mitigations per 2 mins (some more if we count shielding as additional mitigation), but WHM. And not only does WHM not have 3, it doesn't even have 2. It only has the 1, and its shielding is limited to max 2 people at a time. Giving it a 1 min CD "weaker" damage reduction would fix this problem, and tying it to Plenary would both make that ability more useful, fit its existing use case (just using it 2-3 sec before you would now), and shore up WHM's missing utility without needing to even add more button bloat.

not mentioned it in this thread, but i did in another one or three, yes i'd also have cure1 upgrade to cure2, same with benefic1 into 2, and physick into adlo.

Physic into Adlo is a bit weird since they're quite different in both cast time, MP cost, and more specifically, Physic is actually a stronger direct heal than Adlo. The problem is it's still mostly useless. XD Benefic 2 is already close enough of an upgrade to Benefic 1, I'm not sure why they didn't outright do it. Same cast time, 200 MP different but that's really not much (especially on AST), there's really just no reason not to.

The Medica/Holos ones are different, though. That'd be like saying Cure 1 should upgrade into Regen, which...doesn't make sense. You can get a "mini rotation" (if we actually...you know...used GCD heals) of Medica 2 + Medica + Medica or Medica + Medica 2 + Medica as the system is now. When I did the all class ZodEx run, that's how we dealt with his multi-strike lasers since you have no Afflatus abilities, oGCD heals, or even CURE 3 on CNJ (those are all WHM abilities). You apply Medica 2 first, since the party's still at fairly good health after the first strike and it gets the HoT ticking, then Medica spam since the first Medica lands around the third hit to fill people some, then the second Medica around the 5th hit, and for the soft enrage at the end, the final Medica (because after that you're pretty much dead as one of the CNJs) around the time of the eighth hit.

Point is, those are different abilities with different use cases. ANY time you would cast a Benefic 1, a Benefic 2 is better. Cure isn't QUITE as interchangeable since the MP gulf is bigger, but you can still make that same relative argument. On the other hand, Medica 2 is a weaker heal that sets up a HoT to tick while having a higher MP cost vs Medica with a slightly lower MP cost and lower overall healing, but somewhat more healing "right now", and useful when the party is spread out too much that a Cure 3 couldn't cover every one.

That is, I get the thought behind it, but they actually DO have different use cases. But the Cure 1/2 and Benefic 1/2 do not.

pretty sure they'd find a way to keep freecure though, they always do. though freecure isnt even the stupid one, no i'd say that honor goes to the 'benefic has a 15% chance to make next benefic2 guaranteed to crit' on AST. how did that survive until now

Honestly...agreed on both counts. Like, how are either of those still in the game? The mind boggles...

oh yeh one more thing to add on, a lower level version of Misery earned in the 50-60 range,

Not opposed to this, though I think the first mission is getting Solace down to a low level. I remember posting an ability mix-up before (just reshuffling), but I put Solace down at either 30 (moving Presence of Mind) or maybe it was 18 (moving Stone 2 - I figured if Stone 2 came in the 30-40 range, it'd feel a little less boring than using it for 36 levels...). I think that Solace really needs to be way earlier to establish the "use Lilies as your first line healing". Getting it before even Cure 2 would firmly establish that and make low level healing "Solace once the Tank's around 50%, Cure 1 as backup healing if you don't have any Lilies", firmly establishing the "GCD cast heals are for backup healing" mentality and getting people used to the Lilies early on, considering how key they are to WHM's rotation later on. Getting a lower level of Misery by (at latest) level 50 would be really nice, even if Solace was the only way to generate it at that level.

I still would like Lily spender that's a HoT, but maybe later.