Ungendered sit poses, please?

[IkaraGreydancer]

At this point this thread is dumb and has gone nowhere. Again this isn't real life and no game is going to be able to allow you to "express yourself" 100% how you want. I'm honestly glad my enjoyment of a game isn't tied in any way to how well I'm able to express myself. More important things to worry/care about in xiv

[PyurBlue]

Because what you want and what you expect are two different things

At this point, it feels like you're going off on a tangent. Whatever it is that you think I want, and whatever it is that you think I expect don't have any obvious connections to the lack of information present in the character creation process.

a visible indicator that there is or is not interest

If you remember you were called out for stating that one group is small. You had no evidence for this.

The absolute unabashed EGO of you people. This is dripping in narcissism, "The only thing I need to say is I want it, and it's justified enough to make a 'request' - I don't need any other argument ".

A bit of an overreaction isn't it?

What was said is completely correct. You don't need anything other than a desire to make a request. Why would you need anything else?

Now to be fair to you, it seems like from some of your later posts you're arguing that how other people are affected should be taken into account. That's always nice to do, but we're on a forum. If other people have objections, they can voice them. That's more sensible than having the original requester trying to figure out every possible problem that their idea may create.

If you're also referring to the technical side of implementing a new idea, that essentially requires SE to participate in the discussion. Not that it stops people from speculating on their own (and that includes myself). The fact of the matter is, as much as people like to guess that adding X will cause the servers to explode, or adding Y would cost SE 12 trillion dollars and bankrupt them, the average forum goer doesn't know that with much certainty. So rather than putting an impossible hurdle before someone just trying to suggest an improvement, let them speak freely and things can go from there.

At this point this thread is dumb and has gone nowhere. Again this isn't real life and no game is going to be able to allow you to "express yourself" 100% how you want.

Yes how convenient, the thing you're against simply can't happen and because of that no one should try to make obvious improvements either.

I'm honestly glad my enjoyment of a game isn't tied in any way to how well I'm able to express myself. More important things to worry/care about in xiv

It's also convenient that you know the correct way to enjoy video games and how to objectively weight the importance of a recreational activity.

The thread going nowhere is more of a reflection of a desire to have it go nowhere than anything else. For as much as some people want to say the whole thing is a trainwreck, there has at least been some communication between both sides.

For one thing it seems like the rigidity of the cpose list is something that should change. Some people are afraid that if poses are added, they'll have to deal with poses that they don't like. Some people are already in that boat. So I think a helpful suggestion to send to SE would be to work more customization into the cpose list. This would also allow the new sit poses to become universal as the biggest drawback to them, and the drawback that already exists for current poses, would be removed.

The only issue I suppose, is that the group against unlocking anything at all isn't going to happy with any change. I'm not sure how to compromise with them. I can echo what has been said before, that universal poses don't take away from the uniqueness of different characters since things like appearance and lore exist, and just from a realism standpoint, there isn't a sensible way to prevent one character from posing exactly like another. "Giving up" exclusive poses doesn't seem like a concession at all. Yet there is a group that would argue otherwise. So debate on that subject is probably just going to go on and on.

[IkaraGreydancer]

If you remember you were called out for stating that one group is small. You had no evidence for this.


A bit of an overreaction isn't it?

What was said is completely correct. You don't need anything other than a desire to make a request. Why would you need anything else?

Now to be fair to you, it seems like from some of your later posts you're arguing that how other people are affected should be taken into account. That's always nice to do, but we're on a forum. If other people have objections, they can voice them. That's more sensible than having the original requester trying to figure out every possible problem that their idea may create.

If you're also referring to the technical side of implementing a new idea, that essentially requires SE to participate in the discussion. Not that it stops people from speculating on their own (and that includes myself). The fact of the matter is, as much as people like to guess that adding X will cause the servers to explode, or adding Y would cost SE 12 trillion dollars and bankrupt them, the average forum goer doesn't know that with much certainty. So rather than putting an impossible hurdle before someone just trying to suggest an improvement, let them speak freely and things can go from there.


Yes how convenient, the thing you're against simply can't happen and because of that no one should try to make obvious improvements either.


It's also convenient that you know the correct way to enjoy video games and how to objectively weight the importance of a recreational activity.

The thread going nowhere is more of a reflection of a desire to have it go nowhere than anything else. For as much as some people want to say the whole thing is a trainwreck, there has at least been some communication between both sides.

For one thing it seems like the rigidity of the cpose list is something that should change. Some people are afraid that if poses are added, they'll have to deal with poses that they don't like. Some people are already in that boat. So I think a helpful suggestion to send to SE would be to work more customization into the cpose list. This would also allow the new sit poses to become universal as the biggest drawback to them, and the drawback that already exists for current poses, would be removed.

The only issue I suppose, is that the group against unlocking anything at all isn't going to happy with any change. I'm not sure how to compromise with them. I can echo what has been said before, that universal poses don't take away from the uniqueness of different characters since things like appearance and lore exist, and just from a realism standpoint, there isn't a sensible way to prevent one character from posing exactly like another. "Giving up" exclusive poses doesn't seem like a concession at all. Yet there is a group that would argue otherwise. So debate on that subject is probably just going to go on and on.

The thread HASNT gone anywhere. Anyone with can see this. It is a fact that people will never be able to fully express themselves how they want in any game. Yes indeed that CANT happen. Did I say improvements can't be made? No. Quote where I said that or stop talking plz if you're gonna put words in my mouth.

Next. I know the correct way to enjoy a video for ME. Did you miss the "I'm glad my enjoyment" part there? That part is about me, myself and I. And I've already put forth a compromise, give both genders more exclusive emotes. Give a male a more feminine sit but make it fully theirs. (Ie dont just give them a sit females have). Same for women with a masculine sit. I don't see how this is an issue. It gives more options while also keeping things exclusive

[PyurBlue]

The thread HASNT gone anywhere.

Well, I still feel like I've come out with more information than when I came in.

It is a fact that people will never be able to fully express themselves how they want in any game. Yes indeed that CANT happen.

I think you're a bit overconfident on this. Personally, I feel like FF14 would be in a good spot if it just got rid of arbitrary restrictions. I can deal with limited developer resources meaning we can't have 50,000 emotes, but having 20 good emotes and being locked out of 15 of them because "those are for guys" or something just feels dumb.

Did I say improvements can't be made? No. Quote where I said that or stop talking plz if you're gonna put words in my mouth.

You said the tread was dumb, you mentioned that FF14 isn't real life, and you mentioned that being 100% satisfied with expression is impossible. From what I recall, only you've mentioned anything about 100% satisfaction. I brought up the immersion factor of locked emotes by stating in real life anyone could make any pose they wanted, but apparently since this isn't real life that point is completely invalid? The majority of the thread is just suggesting improvements, at least in those posts made by people wanting to see some kind of change, so I don't think it's a stretch to interpret your comment as being against seeking improvements, at least in the context of this thread.

But if you're saying that I'm wrong, then fine, I read too much into it.

Next. I know the correct way to enjoy a video for ME. Did you miss the "I'm glad my enjoyment" part there? That part is about me, myself and I. And I've already put forth a compromise, give both genders more exclusive emotes. Give a male a more feminine sit but make it fully theirs. (Ie dont just give them a sit females have). Same for women with a masculine sit. I don't see how this is an issue. It gives more options while also keeping things exclusive

You also mentioned that there are more important things to worry about. Now this could have also been in reference to your personal feelings, but then why even state it? What important is always going to be subjective.

As for your suggested compromise, I touched on the problem with it earlier. It's simply inefficient. The devs will make 50 emotes, but then any character will only get 5 of them, and the player doesn't get a say in which 5. They could all be awful. It's very similar to the issue that people have brought up with auto cpose. The less control we have, the more likely it is we'll have to deal with something that we don't like. If the devs made 50 unrestricted emotes, then there is no problem. Any player can pick the best ones for their character.

[IkaraGreydancer]

Well, I still feel like I've come out with more information than when I came in.


I think you're a bit overconfident on this. Personally, I feel like FF14 would be in a good spot if it just got rid of arbitrary restrictions. I can deal with limited developer resources meaning we can't have 50,000 emotes, but having 20 good emotes and being locked out of 15 of them because "those are for guys" or something just feels dumb.


You said the tread was dumb, you mentioned that FF14 isn't real life, and you mentioned that being 100% satisfied with expression is impossible. From what I recall, only you've mentioned anything about 100% satisfaction. I brought up the immersion factor of locked emotes by stating in real life anyone could make any pose they wanted, but apparently since this isn't real life that point is completely invalid? The majority of the thread is just suggesting improvements, at least in those posts made by people wanting to see some kind of change, so I don't think it's a stretch to interpret your comment as being against seeking improvements, at least in the context of this thread.

But if you're saying that I'm wrong, then fine, I read too much into it.



You also mentioned that there are more important things to worry about. Now this could have also been in reference to your personal feelings, but then why even state it? What important is always going to be subjective.

As for your suggested compromise, I touched on the problem with it earlier. It's simply inefficient. The devs will make 50 emotes, but then any character will only get 5 of them, and the player doesn't get a say in which 5. They could all be awful. It's very similar to the issue that people have brought up with auto cpose. The less control we have, the more likely it is we'll have to deal with something that we don't like. If the devs made 50 unrestricted emotes, then there is no problem. Any player can pick the best ones for their character.

You must not be getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying have 20 emotes and have most be locked in saying have a bunch for each gender. Have each have 10+ different poses. Offer a greater volume of exclusive variety.

My point about real life stems from the fact that there are limitation on what can be done in a game. I've said this like 3 times now and it's not sinking in. I wouldn't call it a stretch of you think I'm against improvements, I'd call it beyond stupid to come to that conclusion when I already made a suggestion for improvement pages ago. Come on now.

The game you want is called Phantasy Star Online 2 New Genesis. They got rid of genders in that game and all emotes can be toggled between Type 1 and Type 2 as they're called. Seems far more up your alley and no this isn't sarcasm

[VerdeLuck]

The thread HASNT gone anywhere. Anyone with can see this. It is a fact that people will never be able to fully express themselves how they want in any game. Yes indeed that CANT happen. Did I say improvements can't be made? No. Quote where I said that or stop talking plz if you're gonna put words in my mouth.

Next. I know the correct way to enjoy a video for ME. Did you miss the "I'm glad my enjoyment" part there? That part is about me, myself and I. And I've already put forth a compromise, give both genders more exclusive emotes. Give a male a more feminine sit but make it fully theirs. (Ie dont just give them a sit females have). Same for women with a masculine sit. I don't see how this is an issue. It gives more options while also keeping things exclusive

The thread won't go anywhere. Fundementally this comes down to a completionist mindset. They might not ever use it but it just bothers them that there is possibly some gear or pose or animation that they cannot have. They want all of the options on their main character and want to be a completionist about this game, whether or not they will acutally use them. Having more emotes and animations, a wider range, but still being race/gender specific would be wonderful for fleshing out the world and differences in body types and races, but it doesn't scratch that completionist itch, you can't have everything and that bothers people.

It does seem like SE isn't entirely on board with that either, as with the new event they released another gender locked set of gear, so they are definitely on board with separating gear and poses by gender, they aren't going to homogenize every race and gender together into a slurry. Sure they'll give people the maid dress on catboys if they want to go be a troll in DF or ERP in limsa, but they don't seem like they're about to throw open the doors and never make locked gear again.

[PyurBlue]

The thread won't go anywhere. Fundementally this comes down to a completionist mindset. They might not ever use it but it just bothers them that there is possibly some gear or pose or animation that they cannot have. They want all of the options on their main character and want to be a completionist about this game, whether or not they will acutally use them.

I guess I'm the only completionist in the world with who doesn't even bother queueing for PvP rewards or doing beast tribe quests. You should know that trying to paint everyone that disagrees you with the same wide brush is bound to fail, as it has every other time you've attempted this.

You must not be getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying have 20 emotes and have most be locked in saying have a bunch for each gender. Have each have 10+ different poses. Offer a greater volume of exclusive variety.

The exact numbers aren't important, I'm trying to say that imposing restrictions on emotes sort of defeats the point of variety because any given character is only going to get a fraction of the emotes that the developers create. I'm assuming you want an equal number of emotes added for each gender in your suggestion right? So if it's 10 per gender, that would be 20 total. If they are divided by gender though, you're still missing out on 10 and they might be the 10 you prefer.

My point about real life stems from the fact that there are limitation on what can be done in a game. I've said this like 3 times now and it's not sinking in. I wouldn't call it a stretch of you think I'm against improvements, I'd call it beyond stupid to come to that conclusion when I already made a suggestion for improvement pages ago. Come on now.

Yes games have limitations, but what limitation specifically prevents emotes from being universal? It's already been mentioned that the devs have a tool to adapt emotes to different body types, and even players have figured out how swap emotes around with mods.

From what I can tell emotes are only locked because of developer choice, not by limitations with the game. I didn't bring up real life to imply that anything possible in reality should be possible in game. I brought it up because I feel like exclusive emotes are a really weird and weak attempt at trying to create the appearance of diversity and uniqueness. If for example races were just "human but X", I'd actually not have a problem with race exclusive emotes. A snake race without legs would be so physically distinct from humans that having their own emotes would make sense. On the other hand, when the biggest difference between two character is where their ears are, it just makes me question why one can make a certain pose while the other can't no matter what? It's not something that makes me pull my hair out, and it doesn't keep me from playing the game, but every time I notice it I'm reminded how it doesn't make any sense.

The game you want is called Phantasy Star Online 2 New Genesis. They got rid of genders in that game and all emotes can be toggled between Type 1 and Type 2 as they're called. Seems far more up your alley and no this isn't sarcasm

There is more to a game than emotes. While I'm happy to hear that Phantasy Star sounds less restrictive when it comes to character options, that alone doesn't mean it's a game I want to play. If my friends aren't there, and I have to level grind a new character from the beginning (less interested in that these days) I'm not likely to switch. Thanks for providing a serious suggestion though.

Given your reasoning in here it seems to stick, you just hate that there's possibly something you can't have, it doesn't matter that there's a suitable and equal alternative you do have, you want everything.

No, I just want what I like and I don't categorize things as being race or gender appropriate. It's that simple.

[VerdeLuck]

I guess I'm the only completionist in the world with who doesn't even bother queueing for PvP rewards or doing beast tribe quests. You should know that trying to paint everyone that disagrees you with the same wide brush is bound to fail, as it has every other time you've attempted this.

Given your reasoning in here it seems to stick, you just hate that there's possibly something you can't have, it doesn't matter that there's a suitable and equal alternative you do have, you want everything.

[Raoabolic]

At this point this thread is dumb and has gone nowhere. Again this isn't real life and no game is going to be able to allow you to "express yourself" 100% how you want. I'm honestly glad my enjoyment of a game isn't tied in any way to how well I'm able to express myself. More important things to worry/care about in xiv

You don't understand, the latency tax and class homogenization is secondary. We have REAL issues here~! lol

[IkaraGreydancer]

You don't understand, the latency tax and class homogenization is secondary. We have REAL issues here~! lol

I'm not trying to meme on people wanting this stuff tbh. But it's quite clear that the devs lean more towards the traditional side of gender roles in games (as per their culture). They already throw certain groups a bone with decisions they make but itl never be full sale. I do personally feel the worry should be elsewhere but ofc different things matter to varying degrees with people.

I'm just happy I'm fine with the traditional wave the game takes after. I wonder if the jp side is asking for this stuff