Give us back the old Paladin

[ForteNightshade]

While I can't speak for everyone who had an opinion about rotations back then, I am assuming that you are being cheeky in how you are referring to me and my misgivings about having PLD changed, yes?

Not at you, specifically. Just the general sentiment that changing a job for the majority is a bad thing when this precise same viewpoint was okay when it happened to jobs people who disliked their previous iterations.

This makes no sense to me. I'll give you an example. On P8s, with old veil, you could cast during countdown, mit the first raidwide, and have it back up to mit the second raidwide; particularly if it was dog. And if you were doing the optimal rotation, it would line up beautifully with your casting phase. Meaning, you didn't even have to worry about triggering it. You can't do that anymore. So now, at least as far as raidwide mitigation is concerned, you bring less to the table. Old veil just required a bit of planning, which should always be happening anyways in endgame content. And they still could have maintained that functionality with the the offensive rotation changes. If anything, it would have been even easier to trigger veil. This whole rework has been an abject failure.

That first raid wide is comically over-mitigated because you should have either E.Prog or Spreadlo along with Reprisal and any of the other tank mits can just be thrown up pre-pull. Nevertheless, I'll grant you it's still free mitigation that is no longer possible—in a single fight at a point that isn't wholly needed. Meanwhile, in most other fights this supposed "advantage" often leads to old Veil simply sitting around doing precisely nothing because healers won't proc it at the cost of their damage unless it's absolutely necessary. So if old Veil doesn't conveniently line up with a Paladin's magic phase and a raidwide, it's essentially useless. Considering how often such a scenario occurs, the new application is simply better.

Agree to disagree. That is exactly how an MMO should work. For me it's a team effort.

Mitigation and defensive tools can't be reliant on other players because it takes away any agency you have. Ask any Dark Knight prior to 6.1 the thrill that had doing P3S. Pretty much every PF strat required both tanks to invuln. So healers knew Living Dead needed to be heal. Was it? Nope! I and many Dark Knights can attest to be left to die to their own invuln because healers either couldn't heal it or simply refused. While Veil was nowhere near as punishing, the same principle applies. In nearly every scenario, it was ignored due to the raidwides not hitting hard enough to necessitate extra shielding. Especially not when it came at the cost of damage. You can turn your nose up at people for refusing to lose one GCD. I'd rather have consistency.

[DoubleOneOne]

Mitigation and defensive tools can't be reliant on other players because it takes away any agency you have. Ask any Dark Knight prior to 6.1 the thrill that had doing P3S. Pretty much every PF strat required both tanks to invuln. So healers knew Living Dead needed to be heal. Was it? Nope! I and many Dark Knights can attest to be left to die to their own invuln because healers either couldn't heal it or simply refused. While Veil was nowhere near as punishing, the same principle applies. In nearly every scenario, it was ignored due to the raidwides not hitting hard enough to necessitate extra shielding. Especially not when it came at the cost of damage. You can turn your nose up at people for refusing to lose one GCD. I'd rather have consistency.

Your right, PLD has never had the ability to GCD heal itself mid rotation to activate Veil on it's own. I really wish WAR wasn't the only tank with self heals. Oh maybe they should make Clemency part of PLD core rotation. It could be like on a charge system or something. Oh oh and make it so that you can move it around in your rotation with out breaking combo. Yeah I like that idea. I hope they add it to PLD soon.

[ForteNightshade]

Your right, PLD has never had the ability to GCD heal itself mid rotation to activate Veil on it's own. I really wish WAR wasn't the only tank with self heals. Oh maybe they should make Clemency part of PLD core rotation. It could be like on a charge system or something. Oh oh and make it so that you can move it around in your rotation with out breaking combo. Yeah I like that idea. I hope they add it to PLD soon.

I know you intended this as a cheeky little "gotcha" but you're unironically suggesting Paladin's sacrifice damage to proc mitigation that is never going to be required. And you mean for this to be a defense in favor of old Veil? If healers won't proc Veil what makes you think Paladins would? Especially when it would impact their rotation far worse. At least their old one. No self respecting Paladin is ever touching Clemency outside of absolute desperation scenarios. They certainly aren't using it on Veil.

Meanwhile, the other tanks just press their mitigation without throwing away damage for no discernable reason.

[DoubleOneOne]

I know you intended this as a cheeky little "gotcha" but you're unironically suggesting Paladin's sacrifice damage to proc mitigation that is never going to be required. And you mean for this to be a defense in favor of old Veil? If healers won't proc Veil what makes you think Paladins would? Especially when it would impact their rotation far worse. At least their old one. No self respecting Paladin is ever touching Clemency outside of absolute desperation scenarios. They certainly aren't using it on Veil.

Meanwhile, the other tanks just press their mitigation without throwing away damage for no discernable reason.

Please link the rotation you are using... cause everyone I've seen used HS, Confiteor, or the blade combo at least once every 15s. These are GCD heals that proc old veil. Also hard casting HS is damage neutral and does not break combo. And Veil lasts for 30s.. for full availability uptime.

IMO no self respecting healer is ever touching GCD healing outside of absolute desperation scenarios. Its the un-geared party members fault for not using healing pots or getting more gear before doing the fights. I'm also really glad that if anyone drops a single GCD or oGCD in any fight we don't clear the DPS check. It makes it easy for me to know it was my fault for wiping at 0.1% when I don't hold my gap closer for uptime. Oh wait I know what it is, trying to clear all of the content the first day it dropped with the bare minimum stats to clear. If only they release gear at the same time as new fights come out so that DPS check gets easier over time.

I really DO NOT UNDERSTAND why people keep bring up other tanks mit. I DO NOT PLAY THE OTHER TANKS BECAUASE THEY ARE EASIER TO MIT WITH. If players want an easier time with mitigation don't play PLD. I will take your advice thou, if a buster comes during my burst I'll be sure to us mit it AFTER my burst, can't be loosing any of that damage for no discernable reason. I mean healers have shields they can use on me. PLD is a DPS class after all.

[esra01]

Meanwhile, in most other fights this supposed "advantage" often leads to old Veil simply sitting around doing precisely nothing because healers won't proc it at the cost of their damage unless it's absolutely necessary. So if old Veil doesn't conveniently line up with a Paladin's magic phase and a raidwide, it's essentially useless. Considering how often such a scenario occurs, the new application is simply better.

This is not true at all with 6.3 and even 6.2 PLD. For 6.3 PLD rotation, it's impossible for a PLD to fail at proccing Divine Veil. And so old veil and new veil are functionally the same just that new veil removes the added complexity that old veil have. Even at 6.2 you just have to be mindful of your Requiescat window and plan your divine veil accordingly. For 6.2 PLD their physical filler rotation is either 37.5s or 45s long, since Divine Veil shield duration is 30 seconds there are only 7.5s or 15s dead period where you can't cover raidwides with divine veil. I can assure you that situation is actually extremely rare, and if that ever happens there are always another mechanic that damages the entire party before or right after that dead period. And the good thing about 6.3 PLD rotation is that it completely removed that dead period.