So does every hate new PLD now?

[Espon]

Do anything but consolidate the one way combos huh?

Woah woah woah, lets not get too ahead of ourselves here. We know SE isn't about to do something that makes sense.

[Nihility]

It seems pretty underwhelming at best to me.
every 1-2-3 combo resulting in having to spend 4 procs every time is kind of tedious even if the holy light being tied in to normal gameplay is pretty cool. Still has a lot of weirdness too and people doing the testing are saying the changes resulted in a small dps loss rather than the needed somewhat large buff buff.

personally... I feel like. Atonement and holy spirit both proccing off royal authority is kind of stupid, if that's the route they want to take I would prefer royal authority act like a mini-requiescat and just give several instant holy casts. Atonement is kind of a silly skill anyways, wouldn't really miss it. A cool glowy sword variant for instant cast holy's would be pretty awesome though imo
The change to the way requiescat works also makes both it and fight or flight somewhat meaningless(I know it's like a awkward leveling phase thing but honestly...) You could literally roll both fight or flight and requiescat into confiteor the way they are now and put all that potency into the confiteor combo. Just delete two buttons that are kind of doing nothing but being press this then press this and now you can do the real thing. Also resulting in the confiteor combo skills having sky high potency that would feel really really good every time you use them
Goring blade is just an oddball as well, guess I can't really knock it for anything in particular but one off skills that don't tie into the overall theme of a class are not good design imo. Maybe make it an alternative finisher to royal authority that hits a bit harder and recovers some mp so the game becomes how many royal authority/holy finishers can I get away with between goring blades. I dunno, just something more interactive

No complaints with any of the defensive stuff, like it all as it is atm

Overall the clunk factor is high but the theme is still my favorite so I guess unhappy about it in general

[nia_saeli]

I still really dislike that while this rework addresses the DPS issues at level 90, they didn't rework the skill acquisition for a consistent leveling experience. The skill progression is still build around the sustained DPS toolkit that PLD and it feel absolutely awful when you sync down to older content (for roulettes or otherwise). PLD doesn't have a (sort of) proper burst window until you get Requiescat at 68, until that point you just hit 123 like previously, except you do less damage than before... PLD feels much worse in the leveling roulette than it used to (and it still wasn't great before). It also feels worse in content like Eureka and Bozja (where we are stuck with a more janky level 70/80 rotation). At least WAR, GNB and DRK all feel semi-complete in those bits of content even if we don't have certain QoL or potency adjustments for them.

As an aside: I think the part that rubs me the wrong way with the PLD rework is that it doesn't really make PLD better in any of the content that I regularly play. There's not much level 90 content outside of raiding to really jump into regularly and since I'm not particularly interested in raiding, it means that outside of level 90 roulettes, I don't feel the benefit of the level 90 rotation.

I understand that it's my fault for liking the older content like eureka, but there is another 95% of the game outside of the four relevant savage raids and the one or two latest ultimates. Content prior to level 90 doesn't have to be balanced, but jobs should feel good to play and relatively consistent with their future iteration at all previous expansion "endgames" as well. Not taking the time to do that with the rework was a pretty big mistake.

On another note it still feels super hypocritical of SE to rework PLD for the sake of balancing the DPS metrics that can only be understood by breaking ToS with third party tools, but that's a separate discussion entirely.

[Nihility]

I still really dislike that while this rework addresses the DPS issues at level 90, they didn't rework the skill acquisition for a consistent leveling experience. The skill progression is still build around the sustained DPS toolkit that PLD and it feel absolutely awful when you sync down to older content (for roulettes or otherwise). PLD doesn't have a (sort of) proper burst window until you get Requiescat at 68, until that point you just hit 123 like previously, except you do less damage than before... PLD feels much worse in the leveling roulette than it used to (and it still wasn't great before). It also feels worse in content like Eureka and Bozja (where we are stuck with a more janky level 70/80 rotation). At least WAR, GNB and DRK all feel semi-complete in those bits of content even if we don't have certain QoL or potency adjustments for them.

As an aside: I think the part that rubs me the wrong way with the PLD rework is that it doesn't really make PLD better in any of the content that I regularly play. There's not much level 90 content outside of raiding to really jump into regularly and since I'm not particularly interested in raiding, it means that outside of level 90 roulettes, I don't feel the benefit of the level 90 rotation.

I understand that it's my fault for liking the older content like eureka, but there is another 95% of the game outside of the four relevant savage raids and the one or two latest ultimates. Content prior to level 90 doesn't have to be balanced, but jobs should feel good to play and relatively consistent with their future iteration at all previous expansion "endgames" as well. Not taking the time to do that with the rework was a pretty big mistake.

On another note it still feels super hypocritical of SE to rework PLD for the sake of balancing the DPS metrics that can only be understood by breaking ToS with third party tools, but that's a separate discussion entirely.

SE does take internal polling data constantly
bemoaning dps meters isn't an instant high ground for any discussion

[Renathras]

I do. Just post yes or no below so we can get a good idea. I don't think I've ever seen a rework get this amount of bad feedback so quickly before. Even SMN had a lot of praise at the very beginning before people realized just how braindead it became.

No, SMN was derided instantly.

MCH was also attacked.

Kaiten was and still is attacked.

SCH into ShB losing a lot of abilities was also attacked. So was SCH going into EW because people didn't think Expedience was cool enough...little did they know...

BRD into ShB losing its party utility was attacked.

WHM for all of SB was attacked.

This is just a sampling, but yeah, this is hardly the first time or even the most bad feed back most quickly of changes.

.

I'm neutral on it. I don't like the 2 min window and the game revolving around it, so I don't like yet another Job going to that. But on the other hand, the changes don't seem terrible, either. I'm pretty "meh" either way.

[animeking]

I feel like this change is either SE testing to see how the community reacts to this new change so they can implement something similar to the other tanks or this is an in between change to flush out issues that may show up so they can make more effective changes to the tanks during 7.0.

but no, I'm not liking it so far and I'm not a fan of playing PLD.

[nia_saeli]

SE does take internal polling data constantly
bemoaning dps meters isn't an instant high ground for any discussion

Sorry if I didn't phrase it quite right.

I'm not bemoaning the existence of meters. I'm bemoaning them being against ToS, because I still have no idea if the changes were actually fixed the DPS issues that PLD had.

If they collect internal battle logs and metrics, it would be better that they actually share it with the community so that we have the same starting point in understanding why such big changes are required. People can still argue with all the third party sources, but knowing what the devs are thinking goes a long way when these changes are being made. Otherwise, we all have to rely on external sources to figure that out.

[ForteNightshade]

What's wrong with that?

The fact neither does enough damage compared to Dark Knight or Gunbreaker without bringing anything else to the table to compensate. Much as everyone memes Warrior being essentially a Healer in disguise, Bloodwhetting is fairly average in a raid setting. In fact, Dark Knight can mit better on four of the five Savage bosses and is straight up better in Ultimate. All while having noticeable higher damage output.

What's supposed to balance the tanks is utility and sustain. Warrior and Paladin both have options in this department that the other tanks lack. Except the outgoing damage is never enough to make that difference relevant. Paladin having both Veil and Passage is nice but nothing will ever require both. Therefore, Dark Knight's raw damage is always superior. Likewise, Bloodwhetting is nice but Heart of Conrundum is straight up better. Basically, there's no actual benefit to Warrior and Paladin's utility over the sheer damage profile Dark Knight and Gunbreaker offer.

...

To be fair, this issue isn't unique to Paladin. Although, I agree, it definitely among the worst offenders when synced down. They really need to go back and rework the job kits at lower levels because far too many jobs are simply awful. What boggles the mind is they already have a system with Warrior. Berserk is essentially baby Inner Release. They aren't a complete one for one but the intent is there. Every job should have something similar: a weaker version of their max level kit. For Paladin this could be in the form of a weaker Requiescat/Blade Combo.

Nonetheless, I agree there are potentially better ways to reduce Paladin's button bloat. It does seem a little pointless to have Fight or Flight and Requiescat now when the latter could just accomplish what both do. Shield Bash is whatever to me since I never even bothered putting it on my hotbar. They do need to rework Cover though. Otherwise, it's getting closer and closer to just being cut. Which I'd rather not see as it's a unique skill for Paladin.

[Burmecia]

i don't like it yet, but maybe i will learn to deal with it.

mained the old rotation since 3.0, rewriting muscle memory is pain.

[Emitans]

I feel pretty neutral on new PLD. But PLD has always been my least played tank. Just doing roulettes and stuff it's nice to be able to Holy Spirit smartly to keep uptime since you have instant casts of it so often.