WAR needs a rework

[Rithy255]

Sounds nice on table, it's horrible overall to balance around timings. Modern raiders don't look at only damage, they look on mitigation tool kits included and Paladin has essentially nothing in comparison. DOTs do not register shield block Mitigation and Paladin only has 2 self cooldowns in that regard.



Pld was fine in SHBs as I keep mentioning, it synced 60s-2 mins with an manipulation and wasn't a loss.



Not really until it's rotation has optimised taking several weeks. Paladin going in blind content it's DPS is below, or on par a Healer.

Lets go over this:

1. Mitigation, I actually agree that PLD's mitigation is lacking I would like to see more defensive cooldowns, maybe reworking it's self healing (so it's still there or even stronger) so it's not tied to rotation, it should also have at least one more personal, I believe it lacks 2 self mitigations, having 2 raid wides doesn't really make up for it, also Blocks should work aganist dots, Intervention can also be buffed a bit so it's not worse holy shelltron for a friend, In general you can make it's mitigations less janky, rework cover ect. I agree that PLDS the worst defensive tank when it should really be one of the strongest ones. But every time I mention PLD's mitigations being clunky and bad compared to other tanks I get "only dps matters!" (not from you, but most people).

2. PLD SHB was good, I prefer EW PLD in general from gameplay, it's a bit more Janky, SHB PLD struggled a lot more defensively then EW PLD, but it was still viable, you could never really MT as PLD unless you wanted a DPS loss, there was general clunkyness to the design of SHB PLD. But in general it was a good job from a rotational standpoint.

3. Pretty sure you're incorrect that PLD will do "Healer damage" in unoptimized situations this seems like a exaggeration, it will generally be a bit behind warrior in damage, for sure PLD needs the be the most "Optimised" but I see that as a strength in the job, if you're able to do more damage because you optimised your rotation for that fight, it actually makes the job more interesting.


I'm not saying any changes to PLD would be bad, but I don't think I'm hopeful for the rework.

[Undeadfire]

2. PLD SHB was good, I prefer EW PLD in general from gameplay, it's a bit more Janky, SHB PLD struggled a lot more defensively then EW PLD, but it was still viable, you could never really MT as PLD unless you wanted a DPS loss, there was general clunkyness to the design of SHB PLD. But in general it was a good job from a rotational standpoint.

If you call SHBs Pld janky, you're very, very questionable. Except for War, it was the most balanced Xpac out of all tanks and Paladin output was on par with GNB/DRK and adapt to raid buffs as every other tank job could. EW Paladin has been an absolute mess with it's rotation and could no way sync raid buffs without being whipped in the back. Despite the flaw being unable to face tank anything, it still operated a lot better.

[Rithy255]

If you call SHBs Pld janky, you're very, very questionable. Except for War, it was the most balanced Xpac out of all tanks and Paladin output was on par with GNB/DRK and adapt to raid buffs as every other tank job could. EW Paladin has been an absolute mess with it's rotation and could no way sync raid buffs without being whipped in the back. Despite the flaw being unable to face tank anything, it still operated a lot better.

I said ew pld was more janky then SHB PLD hence saying "I prefer EW PLD in general from gameplay, it's a bit more Janky".

so yeah I didn't say SHB pld was a super Janky mess, but there was general clunkyness on somethings OLD req is a good example if you fainted well rip magic for a while, Spirits with in forced you to OT, cover still existed (It's still on ew pld), There was some actual problems with SHB paladin, but SHB paladin is overall less jank then ew PLD, they're janky in different ways. it can be true that both were a bit janky for different reasons, but ew PLD is more Jank.

PLD's output being on par to DRK/GNB doesn't really matter to it's "gameplay" but yes you can say PLD was viable, generally because GNB/PLD did the most damage. Again "gameplay" and "output" are different things I rather PLD be doing the least amount of damage and still be fun, then be a drk/gnb clone, In general I want output to be high, but I want pld to be Fun.

EW rotation, is a bit messy, almost as I said "I'm not saying any changes to PLD would be bad" I wouldn't mind some changes to make it's rotation synch up better, but I don't think we're getting that, it looks like we're getting changes that will just simplify base PLD to something that resembles other tank jobs. I want PLD's rotation to actually be similar to what we had in SHB if possible with the blades combo acting as your dot reapply

but the issue lies more in synching with raid buffs, that's why PLD's SHB sustained dps doesn't work, despite all of EW's jank the issue isn't the Janky rotation it's PLD is a sustained job not a "burst" job, making PLD a burst Job would mean changing the job fundamentally, the issue we're having is I'm talking about not fixing up some PLD jank I'm talking about how they want to make it burst more into 120's even if you fixed PLD's rotation up to fit 60 seconds it wouldn't burst enough, this comes with how PLD has two burst phases instead of 1 big one.

"fixing plds rotation to be less Janky" would only really require some skill speed and spell speed synching (aslong as it's 60 seconds), not any major ability changes.