Brian from Work 2 Game is leaving FFXIV

[Midareyukki]

A lot of people don't like how casual the content can be, but if they did the opposite, "took a risk" and made it like how I am told WoW has been where people spend all day every day just preparing for raids, then the casuals would be the ones dissatisfied. Mechanisms exist to allow you to create your own grindy content such as mount, minion, glamour or achievement farming without forcing others into it.

I find that the community either doesn't know how to draw lines in what they find acceptable or not, or they don't gauge it well. It's sure to be a byproduct of it being a subjective process, so it's based on peoples' opinions (so if I like something you don't, you'll tell SE to change it, while I'll tell SE not to, and we never leave this loop). But it's because of that that we need to start actually, properly gauging our interest in things and how much do we want of it.

Imagine I wanted more casual or more hardcore content. If I don't know how much of it I want and if I only ask for one side, I alienate the other. And that's just not how an MMO is made around. So like... Criterion Dungeons apparently are for more hardcore raiders, but they're plagued with weak rewards, which alienates them. Then their only other alternative is 4 Savage fights and a handful of Ultimates they may or may not have already cleared. This is very low in terms of how much other casual content there is out there, and keep in mind that some of it ends up becoming casual content anyway thanks to the ability to Unsynch. Meanwhile, casual people can't be ignored either just because the hardcore people want there to be a bit more. And then there are people who are midcore, and the best they got is Extreme trials. Maybe POTD deep dive.

The rest comes in terms of quality rather than quantity. Are casual stuff like IS, Variant Dungeons, POTD, Bozja, PvP (debateable to be casual content kek), BLU and so on in a good, robust state that it satisfies the casual side? Or does the casual side want to see a bit more to do in those situations and have added interactivity? And are the fights in Savage and Ultimate challenging enough for players to satisfy them? Because what I keep hearing is that Hegemone and Agdistis are rather underwhelming in comparison to their pet and their boss.

We need to start gauging just how much the community wants, needs and how much the devs can work on (sometimes it's not even up to them whether they work X hours on this product). And we need to make it clear.

Otherwise, if we push it too far into one end, we can end up overruning all content with our standard, but not make any of it enjoyable.

[Renalt]

I don't know the person and I don't care. This sounds like the next step from the goodbye post on the forums and ends up being nothing more than clickbait. If you want to let one person and their opinion guide you out, good riddance.

Harsh. However true and not mincing words and I can dig it.

[SassyAssassin]

Announcing departures again?

[Jojoya]

I wish him well. He seems like a nice guy but I stopped watching Work to Game content because it usually came across as alarmist and dramatic with some content titles more click bait than accurate about what they were discussing. I think part of his problem is he's simply been playing the game a very long time and is in need of a change.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You're not going to get everyone to agree on what's wrong with the game and what's right with it.

As for risk, genuine risk is best left for new titles where players haven't had a chance to form expectations. WoW took some risks beginning in Warlords of Draenor and look where that got the game. Players that had enjoyed the old systems didn't care for the new ones and left. Now WoW is trying to revive some of those old systems but they have no guarantee those players they lost will come back. Will they now lose the players who had liked the changes and stuck around without former players returning to replace their numbers?

The FFXIV team is engaging in some risk but handling it in a more conservative way. They're adding new content types instead of altering existing content. They can't predict how the player base will ultimately react to that content. Negative reaction ends up a failed risk as the development resources spent are wasted.

The original Diadem was a risk that failed. They moved to Eureka, which had mixed reaction, then refined that into Bozja, which was generally well received.

Ishgard Restoration was a risk. The leveling content was well received. The leaderboard end game wasn't.

Island Sanctuary was a risk. It's gotten a mixed reaction though SE seems to be pleased with overall participation, at least for now.

Variant/Criterion was a risk. It's getting mixed reaction but more over the reward structure than the content itself.

The risk is there but it may not be the risk that some are hoping to see.

We need to start gauging just how much the community wants, needs and how much the devs can work on (sometimes it's not even up to them whether they work X hours on this product). And we need to make it clear.

The player community is not a single hive mind. Some players want one thing. Other players want something different. The developers have their own vision in mind.

It's easy enough for the individual player to make clear what they want. All they need to do is leave constructive feedback.

But they shouldn't expect to get exactly what they want, especially if it's not what the developers have in mind. No game is going to end up good if the developers spend their time trying to placate player demands instead of focusing on what they're personally passionate about.

If ultimately you're unhappy with a product, stop buying it. Buy the products that you're happy with. That's how companies learn. As long as enough consumers are buying their product so they're making a profit, they have little reason to change.

It's when consumers stop buying their product and start buying a competitor's product that they start taking a closer look. What makes that product more desirable to the customer? How can we change our product to draw the consumer back?

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

The risk is there but it may not be the risk that some are hoping to see.

See thats the funny thing, people want these "Risks" and for the game to do new refreshing things.
But then they get exactly what they asked for, and they dont like it, saying it should be like everything else.

People wanted Bluemage, they got what they asked for...and they tried to be creative and take a risk on it so that they could retain its identity in the series, and create new content around it.....and people wanna say Bluemage should have just been a regular job. So, thats less incentive to take risks and try new things, when the community says they should just make it work like everything else....and then complain later again that FFXIV isnt taking risks and trying new things.

So then it become an issue of.....do people even know what they want?

[Atelier-Bagur]

See thats the funny thing, people want these "Risks" and for the game to do new refreshing things.
But then they get exactly what they asked for, and they dont like it, saying it should be like everything else.

People wanted Bluemage, they got what they asked for...and they tried to be creative and take a risk on it so that they could retain its identity in the series, and create new content around it.....and people wanna say Bluemage should have just been a regular job. So, thats less incentive to take risks and try new things, when the community says they should just make it work like everything else....and then complain later again that FFXIV isnt taking risks and trying new things.

So then it become an issue of.....do people even know what they want?

A great man once said "You think you do, but you dont"

[Avoidy]

Can someone explain what toxic positivity means?
Or rather, use an example of what toxic positivity looks like in-game?

Let's say you're in a raid, right? Maybe you're trying to get your weeklies or whatever. Hell, it can even be a dungeon. I've seen this happen multiple times across every kind of content you could think of.
So there you are, and you're DPSing, and maybe the tank just doesn't turn on his tank stance. If it's a dungeon, maybe he's pulled a pack of trash without his stance. If it's a raid, maybe the MT died and now he (OT) doesn't have his stance on. Either way, the aggro is on you and you're a DPS, so this isn't an ideal situation. And you tell him to turn it on, because now you're tanking as a dps. But he ignores you and just does his own thing. Aaand now you're dead. And now the other DPS is dead too. And now the healers are dying. And you wipe. You zone back in at the start, and nobody says anything because everyone's afraid to be critical due to the ToS. The guy who died second is like "let's just try again! )" and the problem isn't actually addressed. And maybe -- maybe it happens again, the whole damn thing, point for point, and now someone finally says "dude, OT, turn on your stance so we don't keep wiping" or "MT, stop dying to [mechanic]" and now someone else chimes in with "calm down bro it's just a game dw bro just have fun " and straight up enables bad play that's wasting everyone's time.

Or maybe you get one of those healers who just spams Cure1 and nothing else, and maybe it's actually a detriment because you're in some level 90 content where better play is expected. Maybe it affects your ability to enjoy the content, so you say something like "hey have you considered using other tools in your kit besides the option you get at level 2?" and their friend who queued in with them is like "just let them enjoy the game! " even though their method of enjoyment is ruining the game for everyone else who has to put up with it.

Or maybe you queue alliance raid roulette and you get into crystal tower, again, and you look over and see a guy who's naked and rapidly putting on his gear. Someone else sees this too, and when the duty loads and there're no new players, he exclaims sarcastically, "thanks for queuing naked and getting us the same crystal tower raid for the 30th day in a row" and another guy chimes in with "it's ok ) just a game dont be so upset "

Basically any time you have a valid complaint, there's always some smiling enabler there to defend bad shit that negatively impacts everyone else. These people are positive, but it's a positive force used to encourage toxic behavior that pushes people out of the game when it happens often enough. Because eventually you get sick of Cure1 bots. Eventually you get sick of shitty tanks. Eventually you get tired of syrcus tower every day. And then you quit.

[midnitdragoon]

See thats the funny thing, people want these "Risks" and for the game to do new refreshing things.
But then they get exactly what they asked for, and they dont like it, saying it should be like everything else.

People wanted Bluemage, they got what they asked for...and they tried to be creative and take a risk on it so that they could retain its identity in the series, and create new content around it.....and people wanna say Bluemage should have just been a regular job. So, thats less incentive to take risks and try new things, when the community says they should just make it work like everything else....and then complain later again that FFXIV isnt taking risks and trying new things.

So then it become an issue of.....do people even know what they want?

Limited jobs are dumb

[Jojoya]

So then it become an issue of.....do people even know what they want?

Some people do know what they want but they can be bad at expressing it.

Ishgard housing is a perfect example. Many players were going "Ishgard housing when, SE?" for years. Finally it gets teased in the Shadowbringers announcements via the Restoration. The Restoration gets underway for players to see what the Firmament looks like and some of those players go "wait, this is going to be the Ishgard housing? This isn't what we wanted. We wanted Sea of Clouds (or Coerthas Highlands, or Dravanian Hinterlands, etc.)."

Yet SE gave them exactly what they asked for - housing in Ishgard

Then there's the issue of players know what they personally want. What they personally want is not the exact same thing as the next player.

Blue Mage. Viera/Hrothgar. Island Sanctuary. Variant/Criterion dungeons. All of them have some players that are happy with what SE designed and some that aren't. All think their personal vision should have had priority.

The player base is not a hive mind. Why do people keep expecting it to act like one?

Limited jobs are dumb

Which is only your opinion. You want more "regular" jobs that can be played in any content.

Other players are happy with limited jobs because it lets them do outrageous things that wouldn't be allowed in normal group content and they're under less pressure to keep up with others.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Limited jobs are dumb

This response is dumb.