Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[FireMage]

Yes, it really is. I find it way more difficult to execute the MCH rotation than both BRD and DNC because of the sheer number of weaves you're forced to do while lacking of mobility and healing options. Never seen someone have such a hard on for crapping on the worst job in the game. Your posts make my head hurt!!!

The sheer irony. Also imagine actually saying a ranged Job with no casts lacks mobility, guf-faw

[MagiusNecros]

What?

Red Mage is easier than MCH.

They are both Braindead. RDM seems easier because Red Mage moves like a Snail. While MCH moves like a hyperventilating Mosquito.

[Fryfor]

By who's standards? For me I personally don't find any of the jobs difficult to play. Some are a bit more rewarding than others, but not a single job in this game is difficult to play well which goes back to the main point that difficulty is subjective and should NEVER be a method utilized for balance. Aside from also bein subjective, why should a player be punished for liking a job that just happens to be "easier."

What about SMN fans? SMN used to be relatively complex to some degree, and now its kind of brain dead easy, but should players that enjoy the SMN fantasy be punished for that? IMO no. SMN dps shouldn't be the dumpster fire it is just because its more mobile now and much simpler to play. Yes, generally speaking higher mobility accompanied with range should equate to less dps than melee, but right now with the massive hit boxes that argument is kind of flawed and even if we didn't have massive hitboxes, SMN and MCH are just way underperforming. Heck even RDM imo is waaaaay too low on dps.

Yeah, I meant the guy I was replying to, rather than you, sorry if it was a bit muddy on the intent. Frankly, I'm just more annoyed they have the gall to ever correlate ease of play with how much damage a job should do when SAM is ridiculously easy yet always is mysteriously at the top of certain websites. Or Monk literally doing everything and pretty much being the second best melee. At least that one's hard to play at a high end. Devs aren't much for consistency and there's a certain irony in that old quote that Yoshi P. said about whether or not "devs play their own game", doesn't it?

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah I think Yoshi P is talking out of his ass with his damage = difficulty baloney.

They probably need to clarify what they mean by difficulty.

I really feel they need to communicate with players in Live Letters how they want to design each job and how they want them to move forward in clear transparent terms it would go a long way.

But you know this is the guy that told Healers to play Ultimate if you want something to do.

[Keiisuke]

The sheer irony. Also imagine actually saying a ranged Job with no casts lacks mobility, guf-faw

You half-read too, don't be surprised.
To begin with he does not make a comparison with casters, he simply says that the MCH has no mobility options unlike BRD and DNC (jumpback / dash). He gives his point of view on the difficulty of performing the job and he has every right to do so, even if it does not go your way.

Thank you for sharing your good humor and participating as justly as you do daily on this forum.

[CKNovel]

I can't even understand why we are still debating on "X job is harder than Y".
All jobs are getting easier, positionnals barely exists anymore, casters gets more and more instant cast and mobility.

At this point, every midcore player have the necessary skill it takes to learn the basics of a job within an hour.
The exception being SMN that will ask at most 10 minutes.

This is not Heavensward where all jobs were quite punishing.
This is Endwalker where most jobs press 1 2 3 and plays a specific partition every minutes.

[Aikaal]

The whole utility of defensive CDs/raise regarding BLM vs SMN/RDM is the same situation we're seeing with PLD/WAR vs GNB/DRK.

PLD/WAR have more party utility and gives more party survivability which is nice during prog because if you go for a fast clear you're definitely not as geared as the group getting p8s on the 6th week.

RDM suffers the same than PLD. They have raise like SMN. They have Magick Barrier which is fantastic in a progression scenario. But once you've cleared, you can forget the button and not need it anymore. Suddenly, Magick Barrier loses value. Only content it remains really strong is in Ultimate fights which isn't accessible to everyone.

Raise, however, can always be good. While casting raise does reduce your DPS. It did help my group get a reclear on P7S when both healers died and it took me 5s to raise both of them; just in time for the last party AoE and clear just fine. Unless raise becomes a Caster role action with a cooldown of 2 minutes or so; I am to believe RDM/SMN do need to do 2%-3% less DPS than BLM. In a hardcore week 1 prog mindset, favoring BLM over a raise caster is literally throwing for your group.

Regarding Black Mages, the problem with them is the Crit/DH change didn't buff them but it buffed a lot of melee DPS so they're about 4% behind melees (with the exception of Reaper). I honestly believe BLM is fine. The issue is that all melees have been overtuned because of Reaper's strong release. They buffed melees to be on Reaper level. Even Black Mage was uplifted to Reaper's level. Now reaper is behind. What I do not want to see is a significant buff to Black Mage and Reaper and leaving nothing to ranged physical and caster. That would be a giant slap in our face as melee DPS and BLM are snowballing from each others. If they feel the current melee DPS are doing good damage. Then they need to uplift DPS from all casters, all ranged physical and reaper.

Reaper the guy who says MCH is more brain dead than RDM. Firemage Li I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't consider or value his opinion. He's a one trick RDM player that only plays RDM so RDM will always look better in an argument. "MCH is brain dead. RDM requires more brain cells" for example. I guess it is really hard to control black/white mana that was made ridiculously easy in Endwalker. There is no fight that requires thinking this tier on RDM. The only fight that is rough is P8S on the door boss. It doesn't require brain. RDM just get owned from lack of mobility on 1 mechanic and severely underperforms (but they also do much better than SMN on the second boss)

[Mithron]

RDM raise, generally lets you see more of the fight, generally which is a massive bonus.

Some jobs being better at prog than others while other jobs are better at clearing/farming than others is fine and does not need to be balanced around so long as every job can both viably prog and clear/farm. Only raid damage buffs need to be balanced around.

Anyone who complains "1% isn't worth losing raise for" is wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Rithy255]

Some jobs being better at prog than others while other jobs are better at clearing/farming than others is fine and does not need to be balanced around so long as every job can both viably prog and clear/farm. Only raid damage buffs need to be balanced around.

Anyone who complains "1% isn't worth losing raise for" is wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"only raid buff needs to be balanced around". Ok So lets completely ignore mobility, positional, ease of access and Utility.

Again having a 1% damage bonus over other jobs isn't a good enough "niche" for BLM in comparison to current SMN/RDM (SMN especially even when removing raise shouldn't be 1% behind BLM)., We've been over this again and again you cannot really comprehend anything outside of number data for balance.

[Aikaal]

"only raid buff needs to be balanced around". Ok So lets completely ignore mobility, positional, ease of access and Utility.

Again having a 1% damage bonus over other jobs isn't a good enough "niche" for BLM in comparison to current SMN/RDM (SMN especially even when removing raise shouldn't be 1% behind BLM)., We've been over this again and again you cannot really comprehend anything outside of number data for balance.

Mobility is actually a downside for caster DPS, RDM in particular so I guess they should gain DPS from that above Melee DPS?
Positionals are akin to the procs RDM don't always get and they lose 20 potency per proc they didn't get so I can this balances for positionals
Monks have Mantra which is a pretty good raid utility for survivability and yet they are currently the top dog so I guess they should nerf monks?

I agree Raise should be more 2% to 3% but let me tell you that it's been 3 years that a lot of RDM complains about that tax and they want raise removed. Some jobs are better at prog yes. BLM isn't great for prog. Monk is fantastic. Best DPS in the game. Basic melee survival kit with 3 personal mits for themselves and Mantra. Monk is ridiculously good. Yet, with all that extra support, SE is still giving them the highest DPS. So I can see why some people saying raise is only worth 1%.