"Balance team tests the fights themseslves"

[IkaraGreydancer]

I'll stand by my notion that fflogs have done more harm than good. XIV is a blast when you aren't fixated on numbers

[Gararr]

I\\'ll stand by my notion that fflogs have done more harm than good. XIV is a blast when you aren\\'t fixated on numbers

I'll stand by my notion that fflogs has done more good than harm. XIV is a blast when you can know your performance and help elevate your friends performance instead of being complacency ignorant. When people come together with like minded beliefs and performance the game is so much more fun

[IkaraGreydancer]

I'll stand by my notion that fflogs has done more good than harm. XIV is a blast when you can know your performance and help elevate your friends performance instead of being complacency ignorant. When people come together with like minded beliefs and performance the game is so much more fun

I know I'm doing fine and don't need a number chart to tell me that. Running raids (normals) for pieces is always a blast and most groups have a great time clearing, with minimal mess ups to boot. Again, no log needed.

Logs is a big part of why we have these types of threads. And they breed nothing but ire tbh

[DixieBellOCE]

I am sure they do extensive testing and don't have any issues clearing the fights
however it really rubs me the wrong way that they pretend as if the dev/tester prog experience is the same as the player prog experience
you cannot and will never convince me that dsr was cleared during testing without the use of dev tools to checkpoint each phase and prog each independently

meanwhile actual players must always go back to phase 2 each wipe.
yes, you didn't need 3rd party tools to clear dsr, you had 1st party tools that are a million times more cheaty and powerful than any 3rd party tool

They also play on 0-1 ping on a localized server where clipping GCD's does not exist, therefore having slightly higher damage output than the regular player.

It's the same issue that arised in FFXI when Absolute Virtue was unkillable unless you used an illegitimate method that the dev team would abuse you for doing (And then patch it out of the game).
They tried to prove the playerbase wrong by showing the correct way of dealing with mechanics, while on 0-1 ping. THis caused an outrage and people clearly pointed out that in an ideal 1 ping setting, it was viable.

[LittleImp]

I'll stand by my notion that fflogs has done more good than harm. XIV is a blast when you can know your performance and help elevate your friends performance instead of being complacency ignorant. When people come together with like minded beliefs and performance the game is so much more fun

I used to feel FFLogs was beneficial, but have become more and more jaded recently by my interactions with certain aspects of the high-end community. Ideas of player skill and worth have become too heavily associated with parse percentiles. Players are pressured into this misguided value system, and some of the side effects have been.. really unpleasant.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I used to feel FFLogs was beneficial, but have become more and more jaded recently by my interactions with certain aspects of the high-end community. Ideas of player skill and worth have become too heavily associated with parse percentiles. Players are pressured into this misguided value system, and some of the side effects have been.. really unpleasant.

The only good way to use fflogs is for comparisons against yourself.

There will always bee a bottom 1%. You could have the difference bettwen the top 1% and bottom 1% be 100 dps, and there would still be gray parses.

Sometimes the difference between getting blue and getting orange is only a few hundred dps.

People only focus on the % and color and don't understand meanings. It's why I hate the score graphs and such people always post.

[ty_taurus]

I'll stand by my notion that fflogs have done more harm than good. XIV is a blast when you aren't fixated on numbers

Logs are only used for Savage level content because, as this most recent tier has shown, you kind of need to know how your party is overall matching up to the content for early clears. Sure I guess Extremes too to an extent, but the DPS checks in Extreme are very lax. It's not like people are tracking logs on your 12th run of the fell court of Troia.

[IkaraGreydancer]

Logs are only used for Savage level content because, as this most recent tier has shown, you kind of need to know how your party is overall matching up to the content for early clears. Sure I guess Extremes too to an extent, but the DPS checks in Extreme are very lax. It's not like people are tracking logs on your 12th run of the fell court of Troia.

I'm not exactly sure what your point is. That doesn't really change what I'm saying tbf

[Midareyukki]

I'll stand by my notion that fflogs have done more harm than good. XIV is a blast when you aren't fixated on numbers

I'll stand by my notion that fflogs has done more good than harm. XIV is a blast when you can know your performance and help elevate your friends performance instead of being complacency ignorant. When people come together with like minded beliefs and performance the game is so much more fun

I stand by my notion that fflogs, just like anything else, has harmless properties when applied right, but disastrous properties when applied poorly. XIV is a blast when you get to have fun, and for a lot of people, being able to improve, minmax, optimize and formulate strategies to clear content faster and in effective ways to minimize issues is fun. XIV is an uncomfortable mess if people harass others over damage and actively seek to ruin peoples' experiences based on them alone.

I know I'm doing fine and don't need a number chart to tell me that. Running raids (normals) for pieces is always a blast and most groups have a great time clearing, with minimal mess ups to boot. Again, no log needed.

Logs is a big part of why we have these types of threads. And they breed nothing but ire tbh

And this is where you lost me. I think you conflate "clearing" with "optimizing", which isn't the same. You can clear content but have had a horrid experience because no one around you knew what they were doing and had awful reactions and made poor decisions. I too run casual content for the hell of it. I was one of the weirdoes who spammed Return to Ivalice and enjoyed it. I still do it! I love getting Orbonne and I find it funny when people sigh that it's hard. I went on PF for Extremes before because they were fun and I just wanted a clear. But throughout it all, I kept in mind that there was a minimum amount of effort required from me on a group, and a little bit of optimization didn't hurt anyone. Having people keeping logs around and telling me if what I did succeeded or not really helped.

Logs aren't invalidated because you think you're doing fine and can clear stuff. Not everyone has that outlook. You shouldn't get in their way as much as you have the right of not being bothered by them. Logs are validated when they can help people understand how their job works, if there's anything they need to tweak, and where it's best to optimize vs where it's not. Balance is never done "on a gut feeling". No matter how much logs "don't matter".

[SaberMaxwell]

Savage tiers would die so much faster and subs dropped so much quicker without fflogs there to provide metacontent after the fact. If we, of course, assume that in lieu of FFLogs there'd be nothing, speedkilling and parse running communities wouldn't exist; people would have little reason to pug with strangers outside of their inner circle to improve their personal performance in their off time.

Midare has the right of it imo. There's nuance. No tool brings strictly good things as tools are what the community does with them.