Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[Pip_Chick]

Your example shows a lizard woman with breasts. So to me, "what makes sense" isn't expressed by that example.

I like breasts as much as the next person, but felines of all sizes only have visible breasts when nursing. It would make sense, then, for fem Hrothgar PCs to not have much if any visible breast -- as a I posted previously, the slider could go from "none" to "A-cup." And I don't see much use in fem Hrothgar being just another hourglass body with fur and a different head.

It's not like women need large breasts to be beautiful, after all.
There's some very beautiful small-breasted ballet dancers out there, for example.
If fem Viera bodies are modeled on super-models, maybe fem Hrothgar could be modeled on ballerinas.

1) You totally missed the point of my argument. You went for the fact that they are lizard women, not feline (and apparently totally missed the Khajit which are feline). When I said about what makes sense I was trying to show that I along with others don't want them to look like children or a totally different species (as seen in the other pictures that I showed).

2) What do you have against big breasts? Like I get that felines in the wild act like that, but even with the males their body, arms and legs are distinctly modelled to mimic human anatomy. So I don't see why they shouldn't have them. And sorry but if you want women with small breasts that are modelled after ballerinas you already have them: Midlander, Elezen, Miquo'te and Au'ra. They all have smaller breasts compared to Female Viera and Roegadin and their bodies are much smaller and slender. Besides Making Female Hrothgar look like ballerinas wouldn't make sense when put next to the males that clearly fill the "warrior" archetype. I only see it fit and makes sense to have Hrothgar on both sides of the gender fill that archetype.

3) Not saying you are wrong, don't want to attack you. Just that your interpretation doesn't make sense to me.

[Adamantini]

(...)

I agree with the point that the lizard shouldn't have breasts, as it doesn't make sense for a non-mammal creature to have breasts.

But I must disagree about the shape of the breasts of a likely feline, as they are half human. If we were to take into account more feline traits, not only would the breasts not be visible, but there would be more (I believe a total of 6).
But as I said earlier, they are half human, which makes them only have 2 breasts.

The only game (that I can remember off the top of my head at the moment) that made a race of lizards, where the woman really made sense, was Divinity 2 Original Sin. Follow image

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Im not keen on the whole 6 nipple thing, and Im neutral if Bird people or Reptile people have Breasts, its a Fantasy world/setting, as mentioned they have Humanoid Bodies, so this is moot, unless the devs or whoever decides to do Super Realism and use those types of features.
I honestly dont care if they have Big Breasts or small breasts..heck their size will be adjustable...within a limit, but still adjustable.

[Silverbane]

if you want women with small breasts that are modelled after ballerinas you already have them: Midlander, Elezen, Miquo'te and Au'ra.

Not hardly. So I'm guessing you don't know many professional ballerinas.
You want fem Hrothgar to be feline warriors, then giving them the strong, agile, flexible, svelte, lithe bodies of pro ballerinas is a fitting option. After all, with the exception of those lazy and semi-useless male lions, felines are generally strong, agile, flexible, svelte, and lithe.

BTW, my spouse would find your accusation that I have something against large breasts pretty ludicrous, as would anyone who looked at my 12 alts. But I think it's high time FFXIV expanded our options for creating great-looking fem characters, and not by just plopping a cat head and some fur on yet another sex-doll body.

[Pip_Chick]

Popularity is mostly about execution of design, not concept.

Please don't redefine words, the meaning of popularity, conform to the dictionary is: "The state or condition of being liked, admired, or supported by many people."
"Not trying to make the most popular thing is one thing, using that as an excuse to make something utterly unpopular for a game is another"? You don't know how popular they will be until they come out that is an objective fact, as well as that beast races are a niche not everyone enjoys. YP already said that popularity is not something they are concerned with when making this race, so why not go all out and make them the female version of the Warrior archetype like the males? I don't see why is there such fear in this. Female Lalafel aren't taller or more feminine, they have almost the same body as the males (If not identical, I seriously can't tell). With the Roegadin you have the somewhat standard-looking bodybuilders, which is your only variation from the norm. So why not let Hrothgar be different, like the males (but with more feminine features)?
I agree, a lot of people didn't play Viera and Hrothgar in the beginning because of the gear problems. But just this year SE did try and rectify this in order to make hair more accessible. And that is why if you check the race analytics at endgame Viera is almost double in numbers than Elezen males and almost as many as Miquo'te males. And that is for both Genders, not to say that even Hrothgar succeeds Female Elezen and both Roe's female and male! These races are liked for their appearance and features, the restrictions are the problems! Now that they are slowly fixed, people go back to them!
" I don't think they're gonna be AS beast presenting as the males." That is where I hope you are wrong. Cause the solution to make them more feminine is not to take away from the beastly features, but to make their bodies more feminine and that can easily be solved by: giving them a more feminine shape. Just like you said with the faces, the base is not a human face, but a feline one with human elements to create ease of reading expressions.
And the warrior archetype. A lot of people when I say this think of the stereotypical muscular barbarian that looks like he eats steroids every 2 hours. And so think that I am advocating for females to be that big and impossibly muscular for the female anatomy. But what I am asking for instead is the "Female warrior archetype", think of: Wonderwoman, Valkyrie, The female Vikings and even the female Hun warriors.
There are tons of good interpretations of strong warrior women, why should we just narrow our view to the already existing types for the sake of "will they be popular?" since that is a non-issue, this is a subscription MMO and the items on the cash shop as well as in-game fit all races and there is no incentive to pick one race over the other on the simple basis that is all aesthetic.

[Pip_Chick]

Not hardly. So I'm guessing you don't know many professional ballerinas.
You want fem Hrothgar to be feline warriors, then giving them the strong, agile, flexible, svelte, lithe bodies of pro ballerinas is a fitting option. After all, with the exception of those lazy and semi-useless male lions, felines are generally strong, agile, flexible, svelte, and lithe.

Ow, now I see what you mean, yeah that makes sense, though still, my first instinct wouldn't be to go toward ballerinas, more towards gymnasts.

BTW, my spouse would find your accusation that I have something against large breasts pretty ludicrous, as would anyone who looked at my 12 alts. But I think it's high time FFXIV expanded our options for creating great-looking fem characters, and not by just plopping a cat head and some fur on yet another sex-doll body.

Tell your spouse that I am sorry. I felt a little bit into catty behaviour there, just don't like when people say negative things about big breasts or invalidate them on the basis that smaller ones are more appropriate for an athletic build. Cause I myself have them on the bigger side and my job is in the sport field (all be it, not balley) felt a little bit called out. I still should not have said that, I apologise.

[Silverbane]

Ow, now I see what you mean, yeah that makes sense, though still, my first instinct wouldn't be to go toward ballerinas, more towards gymnasts.

Female gymnast are almost all children; I'd rather not give pedophiles anything to play with (other than lalas).
Top ballerinas can keep performing into their 30's and you'd never mistake them for a child.
And pro ballerinas are incredible athletes. I don't think they'd take second place to gymnasts in any aspect.

Of course, the line between pro dancer and gymnast is fuzzy, as anyone who's seen Cirque du Soleil can testify.

[Pip_Chick]

Female gymnast are almost all children; I'd rather not give pedophiles anything to play with (other than lalas).
Top ballerinas can keep performing into their 30's and you'd never mistake them for a child.
And pro ballerinas are incredible athletes. I don't think they'd take second place to gymnasts in any aspect.

Of course, the line between pro dancer and gymnast is fuzzy, as anyone who's seen Cirque du Soleil can testify.

Huh, I didn't know that, always thought that those careers end up in their early 20. I should do more research on them cause that's interesting.

[reivaxe]

Please don't redefine words, the meaning of popularity, conform to the dictionary is: "The state or condition of being liked, admired, or supported by many people."
"Not trying to make the most popular thing is one thing, using that as an excuse to make something utterly unpopular for a game is another"? You don't know how popular they will be until they come out that is an objective fact, as well as that beast races are a niche not everyone enjoys.[

I think you don't understand, I didn't redefine "Popularity". I said that popularity is determined by the execution of something, not just the concept of or the idea of it. Like I said, I could take the concept of Draggo girls and make it far, FAR less popular with some changes. First, what's the driving concept behind Au Ra? Reptile/ demon race ... that's it. Does this scream "Popular"? In fact, the devs made them as "beastly" as they could without falling into the Viera/ Hrothgar head limit trap, so even if it doesn't seem like it ... Draggo girls are the most beastly females in the game until Hrothgals come.

So yeah, let's change somethings about female Au Ra that would be in line with the concept of "reptile/ demon person" but make them less popular.
What if ... they had huge, thick plates of scales covering the top half of their face (maybe even making it look like cracked porcelain!)? And along with that, what if the lower half of their face looked like Mileena's from MK? They would still be able to wear headgear, shockingly enough, because that's all a very human shaped head. What if instead of being demure, their animations were savage and tense? Instead of having elegant looking horns, theirs are now just as spikey and oversized as the males...

If you applied all these changes to them ... I'm 100% sure they wouldn't be as popular as they currently are, not by a long shot. They would still have the same idea behind them (reptile/ demon people) but very different reaches in popularity. Assuming you know what the devs WOULD do and how far they WOULD push something, and coming to the conclusion that the concept (Beast race) is already "niche" is a mistake imo. I'm sure I already see a race beast race in this game that would be "Popular" if made PC (Loporrits). So yeah, they can design them in a way that reaches/ appeals to a decent amount of people oooor in a way that makes just 5 people happy ... it's completely up to them. They don't have to be overly concerned with making them overly popular to still take this into consideration when designing them. Like I said, there's a difference between accepting that what you want to do might not be super popular annnd simply making something to be a niche within a niche. Like, there's a reason I don't think they're gonna look like Dulia-Chai

Truly, I'm not and never have been a fan of thinking that we can dictate or demand anything outta these devs to suit our wants/ expectations/ reasoning. Theorizing what they WILL do based on what they HAVE done is 1 thing, saying that "X is WRONG/ BAD and they shouldn't do it" is lame af to me.

Like 1 of your examples ... this bull/ cow coupleDOES look like the same race to me, the same way these two people and these Apes are of the same species/ race.

Like this ...

Your example shows a lizard woman with breasts. So to me, "what makes sense" isn't expressed by that example.

I like breasts as much as the next person, but felines of all sizes only have visible breasts when nursing. It would make sense, then, for fem Hrothgar PCs to not have much if any visible breast -- as a I posted previously, the slider could go from "none" to "A-cup." And I don't see much use in fem Hrothgar being just another hourglass body with fur and a different head.

It's not like women need large breasts to be beautiful, after all.
There's some very beautiful small-breasted ballet dancers out there, for example.
If fem Viera bodies are modeled on super-models, maybe fem Hrothgar could be modeled on ballerinas.

I have absolutely no problem with the devs taking the female Au Ra model and up scaling it to make feminine, thin, ballerina like elegant Hrothgals with flat b-cup-at-best boobs. That would actually be unique, all the women taller than Mid's are all stacked in boobs, and I can agree to an extent that it would show a different side to beauty by embracing something they haven't tried yet.

But the logic fails on me, I don't think of Hrothgar as "CATS that can talk" so saying that they shouldn't have boobs is just silly. If the devs want to make them small/ flat chested-yet-feminine af Ballerina types, then cool. But I'm not with saying that they should or shouldn't do something or how far they should or shouldn't go just to please my personal taste.

If they make Hrothgals have heads that are just stylized cat heads and have them look as trash as the males do in most shared hairstyles (in the EXPAC we're getting a graphics update no less) then so be it. If they make them Mithra I'm fine with that to. So long as they feminine, I'm sure I'll be happy.

[Allegor]

At this point I think yall are arguing over semantics more than anything, but whatever to keep the thread going I guess lol