Why use a Dragoon or Monk when you can use a Warrior?

[Rydin]

FFXI style "Abyssea procs" is the WORST type of lazy "balancing" there is. The jobs should be able to stand on their own and all be useful when compared to each other, THEN they can add that stuff later.

They already are useful in their own right... in which case it IS time to add the incap/BR usefulness tactics in

[Rydin]

So why would you bring a DRG over a WAR? Why would you bring a DRG over a MNK or any other DD? Does it flat out demolish those other DDs in order to make up for the fact it has horrible defense?

Here is the issue....
All three classes can do damage and 1 (or multiple) other thing(s) well
So look at it like math
A = A set amount of damage potential
B = Tanking

A + B = WAR
A + C = DRG
A + D = MNK

At this point... all that needs to happen is B = C = D and all classes are equal....
So DRG has to be as good at its secondary thing as WAR is at tanking... and that thing needs to be as useful as WAR's tanking

So C = TP generation, More effective ways to stun than WAR has and enmity reduction
and D = increased TP generation, Speed, Speed, Speed, Elemental Fists (Which are INSANELY USEFUL... maybe the most underrated thing in the game right now) and also more stuns than WAR has

So if B =/= C =/= D then they are at least very close

[Lux_Rayna]

Here is the issue....
All three classes can do damage and 1 (or multiple) other thing(s) well
So look at it like math
A = A set amount of damage potential
B = Tanking

A + B = WAR
A + C = DRG
A + D = MNK

At this point... all that needs to happen is B = C = D and all classes are equal....
So DRG has to be as good at its secondary thing as WAR is at tanking... and that thing needs to be as useful as WAR's tanking

So C = TP generation, More effective ways to stun than WAR has and enmity reduction
and D = increased TP generation, Speed, Speed, Speed, Elemental Fists (Which are INSANELY USEFUL... maybe the most underrated thing in the game right now) and also more stuns than WAR has

So if B =/= C =/= D then they are at least very close

More complicated then it needed to be but exactly. Ill give an easy list on why you use drg over war:

1) I get tp a lot faster
2) I do more dmg
3) I have less enmity
4) I'm not taking nearly as much dmg
5) I'm a pure dps, WAR is not.

DRG outdmgs WAR point blank..unless that DRG fails at life. DRG can spam skills non-stop without ever worrying about taking enmity thanks to elusive jump and the -enmity armor. Power Surge+TP gain+enmity drop= dmg a WAR wishes they could do over a long battle. This thread is full of job ignorance, its like no one knows what they are talking about except for a select few. Even DRGs are clueless and believe this "useless job" drivel. Ridiculous.

Monk outdmgs a WAR point blank as well. Its AA is superior, first of all. Add in elemental fists, ridiculous WS's, and you have MNK's rivalling mages on the parser. Oh yeah, they dont top the hate list either.

The problem with WAR as a dps is that it gains too much enmity for inferior dmg. This causes hate to bounce around, which is a nightmare for WHMS, which causes the party to wipe. The only way to avoid this is if the WAR holds back a lot, since a lot of MRD/WAR skills generate enmity. This means a lot less dmg, which means all those MNKS and DRGs are outdmging you by quite a bit. IMO have a WAR tank, or have a PLD tank. Having both is a disaster waiting to happen unless the WAR knows how to hold back on his skills.

[Lux_Rayna]

You will be taking more damage by an AOE over MNK and a WAR when Power Surge level 3 increases all damage done to the DRG by 22.5%. Good thing there's very few almost one shotting moves in this game... oh wait.

All AOEs are easily avoidable, and only takes a cpl seconds off your dps. Take Ifrit and Coincounter for example. You can avoid all their aoes, and if you wanted to (shows you dont play the class) you can cancel power surge with Dread Spike which absorbs hp next time you take damage. In other words, no you don't take more dmg from AOEs unless you have no idea what you're doing. Aoe charging? Run away. DPS aren't supposed to eat AOEs. If you can't make it, pop on Dread Spike so you dont take more dmg than everyone else. Easy peazy.

The -25 enmity from AF? The -2.5% enmity gain so your 1000 damage weaponskill acts like a 975 damage weaponskill in terms of hate? Enmity gear is garbage in this game and gives a negligible difference in performance. So much for being not clueless like everyone else? Also using gear that can be replaced with something else as a defense for the job's performance in regards to others is laughable at best.

-enmity is -enmity. Way to ignore the point of the post. Point is DRG gets a lot less enmity than WAR. Deflecting an argument doesn't make you right.

It only gets one more ability than MNK does to reduce hate and it's on a 3 minute cooldown. That's not SO much, and it's not a utility move when it only helps them do a bit more damage without grabbing hate and getting stomped all over. Are they doing greatly more damage than MNK to offset the garbage defense?

A DPS shouldnt be getting hit all that much in the first place. If you wanna stand in AOES all day and wack without a care then WAR is the best class for you. If you plan on actually thinking, a DPS will outdmg WAR every time and take far less dmg because they are avoiding frontal attacks and AOEs. And this isnt about DRG vs MNK...its about DRG, MNK vs WAR. Bottom line is WAR is greater def/hp for less dmg, while DPS is greater dmg for less DEF. I fail to see the point you are *trying* to make.

[SwordCoheir]

So why would you bring a DRG over a WAR? Why would you bring a DRG over a MNK or any other DD? Does it flat out demolish those other DDs in order to make up for the fact it has horrible defense?

For the same reason the term "Bandwagon" was invented. WAR has ridiculously high self healing capacity with Rampage, Bloodbath, and all the Crit gear it has access too, it takes less effort (or more depending on the player) for the WHMs to heal and the added bonus of good DPS with good defense on top of it. In other words WAR got lucky to get all the hate grabbing abilities, high dps, high defense, high hp, good damage negation abilities, and free of charge high-healing capacity. I don't wanna knock it, but I do see a nerf bat coming down sooner or later.

But to be fair, all WAR groups are not all they are cracked up to be. WAR's have no enmity reduction abilities as some have already said and I know for a fact how stressful it is to have your Combos get messed up from hate flying around which can really hurt overall DPS without someone being a solid hate source. But I suppose you could all stand in front to avoid the issue altogether, but you also run the risk of frontal AoE's so it's pretty give and take.