New Unreal is a an all around miserable experience.

[Issaella]

You are joking...?

No, there should be challenging activities to do in the endgame for a variety of playstyles/skill levels. You know like most other MMOs have? GW2 has multiple tiers of fractals and raids. WoW has multiple tiers of raids and M+ (as much as I hate M+). Endgame=/=max difficulty or nothing. Something the developers in FF14 don't seem to understand.

Yes. Dungeons, normal trials, glamour, gold saucer, beast tribes, gardening, crafting, normal raids, island sanctuary, sightseeing, wondrous tails, pvp, there's an entire game worth of endgame stuff for casuals. But ONE savage tier releases in a six month period and woooooah nelly, the whoooooole endgame focuses on those darn elitist savage raiders.

None of those are challenging activities. Those are casual activities meant to be done by anyone, but then you know that because you are just setting up a straw-man that you can pick apart. Normal Raids and Expert dungeons are not challenging to me in the slightest, I 1-shot them day 1, I'm bored with them after a couple weeks. Conversely Sav/Ex and the new Unreal require me to invest so much energy/effort that is ceases to be a fun challenge to overcome and just turns into how many hours am I willing to get kicked in the you-know-what just to get a stupid piece of gear or a cosmetic. I can do it, at least some of it, it's just not enjoyable, at all. It's either faceroll or meat-grinder, those are the only two options, there is literally no challenging content to do in between. And I just don't really have the energy/tolerance to engage with meat-grinder anymore so I'm left with nothing to do. In the prev patch Unreal filled in that gap, now it's back to auto-piloting Normal/Expert and that, tbh, pisses me off.

[Reinha]

It's either faceroll or meat-grinder, those are the only two options, there is literally no challenging content to do in between.

I just did Extreme #4 and I gotta say there's your in between content. Cleared it within 3-4 pulls in a party that said fresh prog. It uses the most basic end game mechanics like splitting to light parties and spreading to positions. You can farm it occasionally and do 50 clears for the mount.

But oh wait.

Only this time around there nothing drawing me into Sav because I don't like the armors nor do I like the weapons for Ex4.

You're not happy with the reward.

[Padudu]

The good old days, when most of SCH and WHM's healing was attached to their GCDs.

The good old days.

Alright, you ol' Hrothgar grandpa. It's time to get you to bed...

In all seriousness, I kind of wish I stuck through ARR back then lol. I kind of regret stopping right before Crystal Tower. :P I would've loved to experience what the game played like back then, if only to get a feel for it.

[RyuDragnier]

Alright, you ol' Hrothgar grandpa. It's time to get you to bed...

In all seriousness, I kind of wish I stuck through ARR back then lol. I kind of regret stopping right before Crystal Tower. :P I would've loved to experience what the game played like back then, if only to get a feel for it.

Was a lot harder. A heavy pull in a dungeon required everybody in the party to be good (and for your connection to be stable as a tank/healer) because you needed to rotate cooldowns as a tank or you'd die quickly. The healer needed to be on the ball with healing or the tank would die quickly. DPS would need to burn the mobs down quickly or the tank would die quickly. Keep in mind that it was easy to run out of MP and TP back in those days too, so deaths were painful, and it was very common to wipe to heavy pulls (Neverreap was pure evil for this).

[vetch]

First off, don't presume to tell me what level of challenge I should enjoy in a video game. I get my fill of anxiety and disappointment in rl, I don't need it from what is ostensibly supposed to be an enjoyable hobby.

Different people need different difficulties to have fun. Most people get bored when things are too easy for them, and frustrated when things are too hard.

I'm seeing this mentality infect multiplayer games and MMOs in general in the last few years. That the end-game content and rewards should be exclusively for people in upper skill percentile and everyone else should "git gud" or shut-up/leave because their opinions don't matter. And that to engage with said content you should be happy wiping for 10s of hours and being miserable because that is the road to enjoyment. I don't understand this mentality at all.

You don't need to understand the appeal of hard content to respect that there's an audience for it. I don't understand the appeal of standing in Limsa posing.

God forbid people have lower skill levels and ask for something to be a level of challenge between auto-piloting Expert/Normal and meatgrinder Sav/Ex and now Unreal. It seems like whenever people do ask for something in between the immediate response is always some variation of "git gud", "stop trying to take away my hardcore content", or "lol no one cares about your opinion scrub".

Yeah, that's because you're trying to solve the problem of 'not enough gameplay at my skill level' by pushing that problem onto other people. I'd be curt with you as well even though I actually agree that there's not enough mid-core content.

Can't there be something for the rest of us that doesn't require 100% of our mental energy for hours on end just to break through a wall?

You can get every Faux Hollows item from Wondrous Tails, FATEs, or market board. Point out the rewards that are being withheld from you because you can't clear the current Unreal.

Or is it the experience of easier fights themselves you want? Because FF14's syncing options offer a very broad spectrum of difficulty for re-playing old content. Regular Sephi EX can often be cleared in one lockout using normal sync with echo, for example.

[Semirhage]

None of those are challenging activities. Those are casual activities meant to be done by anyone, but then you know that because you are just setting up a straw-man that you can pick apart.

Widely disseminating the catchy names of logical fallacies was a mistake. Nobody actually knows what they mean. I quoted your own words at you. That's not a "straw man". That's me disagreeing with you. I even agreed that this game needs a midcore in my next statement, but your need to complain about hard content existing supersedes your request for a midcore. How do I know? Because you're complaining on and on and on and on about nerfing hardcore content instead of asking for new midcore content. Then wondering aloud why people "misunderstand" you and say that you don't want hardcore content nerfed.

Sephirot EX is one of the most difficult EX trials they've released to date. Sephirot Unreal is meant to recreate the difficulty of the original EX trial on release.

Barbariccia EX is the content you want, but you don't like the rewards behind it so instead you're demanding they nerf hardcore content for something you do want. Do you see how this isn't you asking for a midcore, rather it's you demanding hardcore stuff get nerfed because you want a specific reward, and is therefore exactly what hardcore players accuse casuals of constantly demanding?

[Menriq]

No, there should be challenging activities to do in the endgame for a variety of playstyles/skill levels. You know like most other MMOs have? GW2 has multiple tiers of fractals and raids. WoW has multiple tiers of raids and M+ (as much as I hate M+). Endgame=/=max difficulty or nothing. Something the developers in FF14 don't seem to understand.



None of those are challenging activities. Those are casual activities meant to be done by anyone, but then you know that because you are just setting up a straw-man that you can pick apart. Normal Raids and Expert dungeons are not challenging to me in the slightest, I 1-shot them day 1, I'm bored with them after a couple weeks. Conversely Sav/Ex and the new Unreal require me to invest so much energy/effort that is ceases to be a fun challenge to overcome and just turns into how many hours am I willing to get kicked in the you-know-what just to get a stupid piece of gear or a cosmetic. I can do it, at least some of it, it's just not enjoyable, at all. It's either faceroll or meat-grinder, those are the only two options, there is literally no challenging content to do in between. And I just don't really have the energy/tolerance to engage with meat-grinder anymore so I'm left with nothing to do. In the prev patch Unreal filled in that gap, now it's back to auto-piloting Normal/Expert and that, tbh, pisses me off.

Not to take sides, but looking at the outside looking in, that definitely looks like you are contradicting yourself in the same post.

[Issaella]

Different people need different difficulties to have fun. Most people get bored when things are too easy for them, and frustrated when things are too hard.

This is precisely that point I'm making, so I don't know what your argument is. The is no, what others have called here "mid-core" challenging content like there is in other MMOs. The Normals/Expert is faceroll and boring AF within a couple weeks, conversely everything above that requires so much energy/concentration/tolerance for frustration that it takes a massive effort just to engage with, not to mention the time commitment.

You don't need to understand the appeal of hard content to respect that there's an audience for it. I don't understand the appeal of standing in Limsa posing.

Where did i say that? What's hard for me is obv faceroll to 90% of the people in this thread. Conversely there are people who only ever do the story dungeons once with a Trust then afk in Limsa. I was just wanting some content that doesn't require my max effort for hours at a time just to clear on a weekly basis.

Or is it the experience of easier fights themselves you want? Because FF14's syncing options offer a very broad spectrum of difficulty for re-playing old content. Regular Sephi EX can often be cleared in one lockout using normal sync with echo, for example.

There is no reward for doing old content synced that I can't get in 2 minutes in the <lvl70 content or maybe 20 in the harder 70/80 stuff. Why would I do any of those without a reward? I already said the only reason i even engage with the Sav/Ex stuff at all is reward based.

Because you're complaining on and on and on and on about nerfing hardcore content instead of asking for new midcore content. Then wondering aloud why people "misunderstand" you and say that you don't want hardcore content nerfed.

Because obv they aren't capable of satisfying the desire for midcore content or I wouldn't be complaining. I don't know if it's resources or what, but there is little if anything to do endgame if you don't engage with Sav/Ex in terms of challenging content. All we every get is more and more challenging content that if you can't deal with it the conses is "f*** off or get better, we don't care which". I wouldn't ask for nerfs to existing content just to have something to engage with if they would actually design content I can engage with. Something like CLL/DR/Dal level difficulty without the high end actions that trivialize it would be what I am asking for.

Do you see how this isn't you asking for a midcore, rather it's you demanding hardcore stuff get nerfed because you want a specific reward, and is therefore exactly what hardcore players accuse casuals of constantly demanding?

I'm not demanding anything. I don't want it nerfed into the ground. I just want to be able to do it in a reasonable time-frame without playing PF failure roulette every week like I could UW pre-6.2. They can obv tune the numbers to make it more forgiving, the Sav people will forget about it just like the Ex as soon as it releases next week anyway.

[Issaella]

Not to take sides, but looking at the outside looking in, that definitely looks like you are contradicting yourself in the same post.

How? All the things the poster listed are either solo content that doesn't require any kind of mechanical precision or in the case of normal Trials/Dungeons can be done with a party of NPCs. We are talking about variable difficulty in group based content. There is very little to do between faceroll "for everyone" group content and meat-grinder challenging content in this game, UW Unreal was an exception. There is nothing equivalent to LFR/Norm/Hero/Mythic raid tiers in WoW for example. It's just the equivalent of LFR and Mythic level difficulty. And the people who would normally engage with the Normal and then Heroic level in WoW and then maybe step up into Mythic near the end of the tier essentially have no way to advance except throwing themselves at the massive difficulty spike between normal and Savage/Ex.

[Seera1024]

I'm not demanding anything. I don't want it nerfed into the ground. I just want to be able to do it in a reasonable time-frame without playing PF failure roulette every week like I could UW pre-6.2. They can obv tune the numbers to make it more forgiving, the Sav people will forget about it just like the Ex as soon as it releases next week anyway.

And what do you tell the players who wanted to experience Seph Ex as it was when it launched to the best the game can do? Which is where it's at now.

Why does your preference supersede their preference?