Live Letter Thoughts

[Hurlstone]

This forum, and even places like Reddit, are a tiny percentage of the playerbase. Its near impossible to really get a 100% accurate idea of what the population think on any aspect, be it job changes or story. Anger and discourse will always have a louder voice in the pack. One just hopes that those in charge like Yoshi-P know to look beyond just these walls when seeking feedback.

Personally speaking though, I do feel that Endwalkers story being ‘divisive’ is an overexertion. Perhaps not here, where honestly it feels rather daunting at times to speak out as a fan of Venat, but critically the expansion was a hit and outside of these threads I see little condemnation of the story. It may not be as lauded as Shadowbringers, and like with any game no doubt hype has been responsible for inflating its initial reaction, but the way some seem to talk of it being the ‘Cataclysm’ to FFXIV just dose not ring true with me (Come back to me when a whole zone is changed into a Ranbo parody… it was hard being an Alliance lore player at that time.) Of course I am not saying people who disliked the story are wrong, we all have our preferences and art is always subjective, I just feel the scale of that dislike is debatable in the wider context of the game and the players reaction.

I will also say, as its impossible to be completely bias in any discussion, that I did love Endwalker and its themes. It had its flaws forn sure and I still had some concerns with how they approched the Scions in 6.1, but nothing is perfect haha.

Yep. I used to really like Thancred but have since grown tired of him due to overexposure and this strange new trend of humble bragging about walking away with not even a scar. Despite creating a cool, unique model for him back in Heavensward that left him looking more rugged and grizzled as a consequence of what he endured.

Funnily enough Thancred used to always be my least favorite Scion. From ARR+ I found him just rather boring and monotonous, but he became one of my favorites with Shadowbrings and the arc they gave him and Ryne.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Funnily enough Thancred used to always be my least favorite Scion. From ARR+ I found him just rather boring and monotonous, but he became one of my favorites with Shadowbrings and the arc they gave him and Ryne.

Daddy Thancred Arc was a good Arc.
His relationship with Ryne was really good. One of many reasons why ShB IMO was the Best Expansion.

[ReynTime]

Daddy Thancred Arc was a good Arc.
His relationship with Ryne was really good. One of many reasons why ShB IMO was the Best Expansion.

If they were really concerned about making good character development closures, that would have been the end of his arc. Since 1.0 his story was based on the guilt from failing to stop Minfilia's father from getting killed, evolved into him feeling he had to make up for it by working harder under the Circle and consequently the Scions while still being too hard on himself since, stumbling to grow due the circumstances of his missions (falling for the trap in Drybone, being taken by an Ascian, etc), then feeling like he 'lost' Minfilia in Heavensward... until he meets what is essentially his 'second chance' in Ryne, which was the primary reason he got so over protective of her.
Only reason he's still around now is because muh fans who can't let go of characters with concluded arcs just because they love them too much.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

If they were really concerned about making good character development closures, that would have been the end of his arc. Since 1.0 his story was based on the guilt from failing to stop Minfilia's father from getting killed, evolved into him feeling he had to make up for it by working harder under the Circle and consequently the Scions while still being too hard on himself since, stumbling to grow due the circumstances of his missions (falling for the trap in Drybone, being taken by an Ascian, etc), then feeling like he 'lost' Minfilia in Heavensward... until he meets what is essentially his 'second chance' in Ryne, which was the primary reason he got so over protective of her.
Only reason he's still around now is because muh fans who can't let go of characters with concluded arcs just because they love them too much.

Cool Story Bro.
Im not going to argue about if the Devs were concerned about his character development closure, or why he's still around for any reason.
His arc and that story in ShB was great, thats the only thing I can & will say on it. Why he's still around? I dounno, why didnt he die back in ShB, not an answer I can give. If he's still around, then he still has a purpose. And Ill wait to see what that purpose is. For now, my attention and energy is on other things in the game.

The only person I question is Kryle since it just seems like she does nothing more then exposition. But thats exactly how Urianger started out. So there is potential she could see a bigger role in the future. But again, for now my attention and Energy is on other things.

[AwesomeJr44]

Perhaps not here, where honestly it feels rather daunting at times to speak out as a fan of Venat,

Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking. Being an open Venat fan is the easiest way to have the GCBTW accept you instantly on any other social media platform, and even on the forums you're accepted by half of the people here. On the forums, you'll actually meet people from both sides, people who like her (somehow), and people people who don't. Don't pretend like Venat fans are some persecuted group, that's so ridiculous it would be hilarious if I could believe it was a joke.

- You guys have the GCBTW to banish any anti-Venat people to downvote hell on Reddit, while if you make a pro-Venat post you get to swim in upvotes for almost zero effort.
- You have Pro-Venat Reddit Mods to just outright delete pro-Ascian/Zodiark posts and art to prevent them from getting even some small level of attention.
- You have your own personal derailing squad on the forums to ensure that anyone who disagrees with you can't have a proper thread because god forbid someone talk about how they don't like mommy or how she's a murderer. (The derailing happens even when its a positive thread like this one was. Guess people hate Aveyond THAT much for being honest)
- Every Youtuber on Youtube is forced to agree with you so they can get MSQ watch time as not liking the story isn't popular.
- You have big FFXIV streamers like Zepla painting the entire portion of the community that didn't like Endwalker/Venat as 'trolls'.

Being a Venat fan isn't 'daunting'. You just prefer the Reddit/Twitter/Youtube echo chamber where you don't often encounter people who don't like your precious mommy.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking. Being an open Venat fan is the easiest way to have the GCBTW accept you instantly on any other social media platform

Herein lies a big part of the problem; we're not on any other platform. The victim play about how you all get downvoted to oblivion elsewhere is meaningless here. If we really cared what Reddit or Twitter or wherever else thought, we'd go there. Maybe save your anger for them, and try approaching the forums as its own place.

And before it comes up: I'm not very pro-Venat. I'm neutral about her at best. I want to play through Endwalker again for better context (I was kinda rushing the first time to outpace spoilers, and still only met with moderate success at it), but I keep getting distracted by other stuff, so I try to keep my thoughts about the matter to myself.

[AwesomeJr44]

Herein lies a big part of the problem; we're not on any other platform.

I know the forums are different, I even said as such in my post. I was pointing out how every other platform caters to pro-Venat people, while the forums are a more fair place for discussion. The person I was responding to said that it was difficult or 'daunting' to be pro-Venat on this platform. This is not the case, it is merely not as incredibly easy and popular to be pro-Venat here as you'll actually encounter people who don't share your opinions. The forums are what a social media community SHOULD be (or at least far closer than anything else), but this person is accustomed to echo chambers and thus apparently finds the opposing opinions on the forums to be scary.

I did bring up one thing about the forums that makes it more difficult to be anti-Venat, but even with that in mind, I'd rather be posting here than on other sites.

Being an open Venat fan is the easiest way to have the GCBTW accept you instantly on any other social media platform, and even on the forums you're accepted by half of the people here. On the forums, you'll actually meet people from both sides, people who like her (somehow), and people people who don't. ...

Being a Venat fan isn't 'daunting'. You just prefer the Reddit/Twitter/Youtube echo chamber where you don't often encounter people who don't like your precious mommy.

[Hurlstone]

I know the forums are different, I even said as such in my post. I was pointing out how every other platform caters to pro-Venat people, while the forums are a more fair place for discussion. The person I was responding to said that it was difficult or 'daunting' to be pro-Venat on this platform. This is not the case, it is merely not as incredibly easy and popular to be pro-Venat here as you'll actually encounter people who don't share your opinions. The forums are what a social media community SHOULD be, but this person is accustomed to echo chambers and thus apparently finds the opposing opinions on the forums to be scary.

I am sorry but I feel I must defend myself a bit here and say that is... hippo crap? Forums would be a very boring place if we all just agreed on everything, especially when it comes to topics of lore and how we are effected by its story and themes. One of the beautiful things about fiction and art is how it can be interpreted and judged in different ways, be it for good or bad. I have found it very interesting to see why people do feel the way they do about Venat and Endwalkers themes, some of the opinions shown on this forum have even opened my eyes into flaws I did not see in my playthrough, though my mind has not be changed on its major points. Perhaps ‘daunting’ was the wrong word to use, and I am sorry. I did not mean to imply any victim hood. In this forum however, it just feels to me that over time… passive-aggressive retorts and accusations of ‘echo chambers’ in regards to those of us who do like the expansion/Venat have become a little more common then actually listening to opinions and debating said lore. Personally speaking it makes trying to engaging in such topics from the side the pendulum swings less feel a little… redundant somtimes.

[AwesomeJr44]

Forums would be a very boring place if we all just agreed on everything ... One of the beautiful things about fiction and art is how it can be interpreted and judged in different ways, be it for good or bad.

We don't disagree on this. That is why the official forums is far better than the echo chambers like r/ffxiv where one type of opinion is valued while the other is outcast. You're not going to get both interpretations on other sites.

Perhaps ‘daunting’ was the wrong word to use, and I am sorry. I did not mean to imply any victim hood.

I'm inclined to agree that daunting perhaps wasn't the word you were looking for, considering the contents of your newer comment.

In this forum however, it just feels to me that over time… passive-aggressive retorts and accusations of ‘echo chambers’ in regards to those of us who do like the expansion/Venat have become a little more common then actually listening to opinions and debating said lore.

That point about echo chambers is brought up a lot because its very true. The FFXIV community (at least the portion that exists on social media) as a whole is very aggressive in suppressing anything seen as 'negative'. The same is true on the forums, and while the derail squad can't actually succeed in suppressing any threads like they can on Reddit, they still are not here for good faith discussion, they're here to shut discussion down. When people like Atelier or Silverbane show up in Aveyond's threads, they're not here because they like the topic or find it interesting. They're here to distract everyone from having a meaningful conversation. When Aveyond made a thread about how the new guide videos were bad for FFXIV's image, Atelier came into the thread and said that the thread was worthless and that no one should care about this topic. Does this contribute to a discussion? No, it discourages people from engaging in it by labeling it as pointless, and that's their goal. People like me or Aveyond bring it up a lot because it occurs a LOT.

As for the reason why only the one side of the argument ever refers to echo chambers, well that one's easy. All of the big social media communities outside of the forums sway in one particular direction. There really isn't a place to go for an anti-Endwalker or anti-Venat echo chamber, thus the argument doesn't work against an anti-Endwalker person.

Personally speaking it makes trying to engaging in such topics from the side the pendulum swings less feel a little… redundant somtimes.

Well that's the thing. It IS redundant. Every time someone like Aveyond makes a thread, the same exact people come into the thread to derail it before anyone can talk about something that might be 'negative'. They chase anyone who might have wanted to discuss things away from the thread and the same conversation resumes every time. It's exhausting, and I'll be full glad to have a good discussion when the derail squad calls it quits and lets people discuss what they want.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Herein lies a big part of the problem; we're not on any other platform. The victim play about how you all get downvoted to oblivion elsewhere is meaningless here. If we really cared what Reddit or Twitter or wherever else thought, we'd go there. Maybe save your anger for them, and try approaching the forums as its own place.

And before it comes up: I'm not very pro-Venat. I'm neutral about her at best. I want to play through Endwalker again for better context (I was kinda rushing the first time to outpace spoilers, and still only met with moderate success at it), but I keep getting distracted by other stuff, so I try to keep my thoughts about the matter to myself.

Don't forget to state how this is your opinion alone and how you can only speak for yourself. You wouldn't want anyone to think you were speaking for the majority, would you? Surely, you would protect yourself from being seen as engaging in the type of bad faith cajolery that vile Zodiark cult is known to practice.