Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[YellowLine]

I remember when they announced Kaiten was being removed I was so confused at the outcry and thought people were overreacting, like I empathised (healer main) with button removal but I couldn’t see why it was like the end of the world, then I got around to levelling SAM from level 80 to 90 and oh my god I cannot believe that 2 changes like Kaiten and the auto crit could so thoroughly ruin a job that even I could feel how bad it was just casually using it in a dungeon with no intention of ever maining it

This might just be the record for least number of changes that completely destroyed a job

That's kind of why explaining why we're upset is so difficult sometimes. It's something that most people only understand when they actually main the job. So from the outside, it just looks like a bunch of SAM mains whining and circlejerking over 1 """pointless""" button (here's some truth juice: every button in this game is pointless, this is a stupid argument). What really gets me is this: if you take literally like 5 seconds to rationalize it, the majority of SAM mains being upset about a change probably means the change IS that bad. How people never consider that is beyond me. Like, people who main the job are the people the Devs should actually listen to. Are people dumb enough to think that we're all just collectively wrong about this? That none of our reasoning or experience playing the job matters just because "it's just one button lol". And even if it IS just a small change, it's still widely considered to be a negative one. Do problems need to meet a size requirement before criticism is valid? Is sitting idly and doing nothing while the devs slowly suck all the fun out of our job one button at a time really the only acceptable course of action just because "oh well at least it's only one button"? Are we only allowed to care when it's two buttons? Three? TEN!? WHAT ARE THE RULES?!

[Ceridwen]

That's kind of why explaining why we're upset is so difficult sometimes. It's something that most people only understand when they actually main the job. So from the outside, it just looks like a bunch of SAM mains whining and circlejerking over 1 """pointless""" button (here's some truth juice: every button in this game is pointless, this is a stupid argument). What really gets me is this: if you take literally like 5 seconds to rationalize it, the majority of SAM mains being upset about a change probably means the change IS that bad. How people never consider that is beyond me. Like, people who main the job are the people the Devs should actually listen to. Are people dumb enough to think that we're all just collectively wrong about this? That none of our reasoning or experience playing the job matters just because "it's just one button lol". And even if it IS just a small change, it's still widely considered to be a negative one. Do problems need to meet a size requirement before criticism is valid? Is sitting idly and doing nothing while the devs slowly suck all the fun out of our job one button at a time really the only acceptable course of action just because "oh well at least it's only one button"? Are we only allowed to care when it's two buttons? Three? TEN!? WHAT ARE THE RULES?!

All true! I would also add that they didn't replace Kaiten with something different, or a different game play or style. They just made it LESS. People may not like, say, the Summoner changes (I actually do, but I hated it before) - but it is, at least, completely changed. This isn't a change - this is reduced, flattened, and made flavorless.

[Quor]

All true! I would also add that they didn't replace Kaiten with something different, or a different game play or style. They just made it LESS. People may not like, say, the Summoner changes (I actually do, but I hated it before) - but it is, at least, completely changed. This isn't a change - this is reduced, flattened, and made flavorless.

This really can't be emphasized enough. It's why I maintain that the changes were a spreadsheet-driven paint-by-numbers kind of thing instead of something actually meaningful; because the changes were entirely reductive. Nothing was added in the place of Kaiten. Instead, Kaiten was seen as "simply" a potency increase with 0 consideration of it's effect on the larger meta game of resource management and burst timing. As a result the job was made lesser than it was prior to the removal of Kaiten.

Or, to paraphrase one of the posters in the JP thread, you can't take away the stairs in someone's home and then promise to put in an elevator at some indeterminate point in the future.

[CelestiCer]

This really can't be emphasized enough. It's why I maintain that the changes were a spreadsheet-driven paint-by-numbers kind of thing instead of something actually meaningful; because the changes were entirely reductive. Nothing was added in the place of Kaiten. Instead, Kaiten was seen as "simply" a potency increase with 0 consideration of it's effect on the larger meta game of resource management and burst timing. As a result the job was made lesser than it was prior to the removal of Kaiten.

Or, to paraphrase one of the posters in the JP thread, you can't take away the stairs in someone's home and then promise to put in an elevator at some indeterminate point in the future.

It would not surprise me that they done all of this to appease some arbitrary metrics.

The players that love any ounce of nuances are shafted, more so if they main it. While the players who wouldn't lift a finger to learn and master jobs? will not even be happy until the gameplay has been watered down to auto-running and spamming 1 or 2 buttons like a mobile game. There's only so much trust and goodwill left with players. I am just still not going to be surprised if they try completely ignore the outrage surrounding the negative 6.1 SAM feedback.

Cause why act deaf? when they can treat us as mutes better yet, not relevant enough to be considered existing to them. Quite an extreme, but I would say that perfectly describes how I feel as a customer to their product. And that's now 5 months, and counting.

[Flashy]

@Celesti do you have a bingo card or something for the big day tomorrow?

[CelestiCer]

@Celesti do you have a bingo card or something for the big day tomorrow?

My prediction is that they will act like they forgot about the feedback they requested, and act like they never even requested it. That's my main Expectation. My second expectation is that Critical Hit will not actually be divided into Critical Strike Chance and Critical Strike Damage stats (LIKE IN FREAKING EVERY OTHER MMO YOU CAN THINK OF) or Direct Hit being changed to Critical Strike Damage to actually make auto-crits feel half decent. Then another Bingo option would be somewhere along the lines that the Dev's have identified that we like Shinten due to the amount of times we use it according to their metrics ( fk'ing kill me... ) thus they will increase it's potency. Lastly something about an apology for Sanctuary being delayed or the maybe the recent DDos who knows, it's going to be apology for something that probably most won't care about, it's just free farmable " Good-Will-Points " SE can use every now and then to buff their good image to the masses.

That's about the expectation I got. 10/10 or no shot?

[Mortex]

It would not surprise me that they done all of this to appease some arbitrary metrics.

The players that love any ounce of nuances are shafted, more so if they main it. While the players who wouldn't lift a finger to learn and master jobs? will not even be happy until the gameplay has been watered down to auto-running and spamming 1 or 2 buttons like a mobile game. There's only so much trust and goodwill left with players. I am just still not going to be surprised if they try completely ignore the outrage surrounding the negative 6.1 SAM feedback.

Cause why act deaf? when they can treat us as mutes better yet, not relevant enough to be considered existing to them. Quite an extreme, but I would say that perfectly describes how I feel as a customer to their product. And that's now 5 months, and counting.

Well that’s the same reason why healer got dumbed down massively in the damage possibility department. To a peace crayon eater and still don’t dps even with 2 buttons. I mean kaiten removal must be really good for every freestyle samurai in this game. Shinten spam is brain dead easy in comparison too the galaxy brain stuff that kaiten is in combination with iaijutsu.

[Kosachi]

My prediction is that they will act like they forgot about the feedback they requested, and act like they never even requested it. That's my main Expectation. My second expectation is that Critical Hit will not actually be divided into Critical Strike Chance and Critical Strike Damage stats (LIKE IN FREAKING EVERY OTHER MMO YOU CAN THINK OF) or Direct Hit being changed to Critical Strike Damage to actually make auto-crits feel half decent. Then another Bingo option would be somewhere along the lines that the Dev's have identified that we like Shinten due to the amount of times we use it according to their metrics ( fk'ing kill me... ) thus they will increase it's potency. Lastly something about an apology for Sanctuary being delayed or the maybe the recent DDos who knows, it's going to be apology for something that probably most won't care about, it's just free farmable " Good-Will-Points " SE can use every now and then to buff their good image to the masses.

That's about the expectation I got. 10/10 or no shot?

I will eat my shoe if you're wrong. Oh God, I wish you were wrong, but I'm not getting my hopes anywhere near underground.

[Flashy]

My prediction is that they will act like they forgot about the feedback they requested, and act like they never even requested it. That's my main Expectation. My second expectation is that Critical Hit will not actually be divided into Critical Strike Chance and Critical Strike Damage stats (LIKE IN FREAKING EVERY OTHER MMO YOU CAN THINK OF) or Direct Hit being changed to Critical Strike Damage to actually make auto-crits feel half decent. Then another Bingo option would be somewhere along the lines that the Dev's have identified that we like Shinten due to the amount of times we use it according to their metrics ( fk'ing kill me... ) thus they will increase it's potency. Lastly something about an apology for Sanctuary being delayed or the maybe the recent DDos who knows, it's going to be apology for something that probably most won't care about, it's just free farmable " Good-Will-Points " SE can use every now and then to buff their good image to the masses.

That's about the expectation I got. 10/10 or no shot?

I thought they spent all their points when they tried to blame the players that their internet connection caused the 2002 errors but I could see them quadruple dipping into those pockets. Yoshi-P will bow his head for 5 minutes straight to apologize and the people will forget lol, sheep.

[Mortex]

I thought they spent all their points when they tried to blame the players that their internet connection caused the 2002 errors but I could see them quadruple dipping into those pockets. Yoshi-P will bow his head for 5 minutes straight to apologize and the people will forget lol, sheep.

It’s just so funny if you think about it. They fluffed up royally, but the moment he bows his head for sometime, people forgive him even after stuff like this happened so many times. And they still don’t fix any jobs afterwards.

What gonna happen is they gonna either sweep it under the rug or they gonna apologize and still don’t fix anything.