Rescue is Griefing

[ZedxKayn]

I made a troll thread because calling this hysterical lunacy "logic" is awesome. Playing God and controlling my character indeed. The things people in this community will clutch their pearls over.

You don't have logical discussions with people pitching hissy fits. You tell them to get over it.

I bet you don't have that type of reaction when it's someone complaining about the state of healers. To some, the complaints about the state of healing is absolute lunacy, too.

Rescue is disliked because it is intrusive and people will complain about it, like it or not, that's called feedback, and having our flow messed with in an intrusive way like that is a very valid thing to complain about to us even if it's "lunacy" or "pearl clutching" to you. It's just bad game design that makes for a very unpleasant experience even if of course from the healer's perspective, it's just whatever.

[Gemina]

Rescue is disliked because it is intrusive and people will complain about it, like it or not, that's called feedback, and having our flow messed with in an intrusive way like that is a very valid thing to complain about to us even if it's "lunacy" or "pearl clutching" to you. It's just bad game design that makes for a very unpleasant experience even if of course from the healer's perspective, it's just whatever.

The issue your argument has is your not stating why it is bad game design. I know you think that being yanked from your position is bad game design, but feelings and anecdotal evidence doesn't actually equate to bad design. You would actually need to provide solid evidence that the skill is causing fundamental issues in PvE content. And based on your arguments, you would actually have to prove that clears are harder to obtain because healers are severely reducing group DPS through the abusive use of Rescue. Good luck with that.

The other issue is the complete and utter inability to even listen to those in favor of Rescue, and their reasoning behind it. They have actually stated valid reasons not based on feelings or anecdotal evidence to give strength to their arguments. Whether you want to believe it or not, Rescue has saved a lot of players from eating dirt. It has been used in prog strats. It does require skill to use it effectively. These are all facts. I know it sucks to get punched in the face with the truth, but it is what it is.

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

[LittleImp]

The issue your argument has is your not stating why it is bad game design. I know you think that being yanked from your position is bad game design, but feelings and anecdotal evidence doesn't actually equate to bad design. You would actually need to provide solid evidence that the skill is causing fundamental issues in PvE content. And based on your arguments, you would actually have to prove that clears are harder to obtain because healers are severely reducing group DPS through the abusive use of Rescue. Good luck with that.

The other issue is the complete and utter inability to even listen to those in favor of Rescue, and their reasoning behind it. They have actually stated valid reasons not based on feelings or anecdotal evidence to give strength to their arguments. Whether you want to believe it or not, Rescue has saved a lot of players from eating dirt. It has been used in prog strats. It does require skill to use it effectively. These are all facts. I know it sucks to get punched in the face with the truth, but it is what it is.

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

A skill being unfun is actually a completely acceptable justification for asking for it to be removed or reworked. I literally do not know a single person that 'enjoys' being on the receiving end of Rescue. I do know a few healers who constantly gloat about using it though, and they're the same type of cringeworthy "I DECIDE WHO LIVES AND DIES" healers that everyone just kind of awkwardly laughs off and then avoids partying with.

People have provided plenty of reasonable arguments about why the skill is unfun or has an otherwise negative impact on party performance. You've just arbitrarily decided that their feedback is invalid because you don't agree with it, and are leaning into your own anecdotes and feelings while dismissing others whom you feel are doing the same. I'm not really sure what kind of evidence you want; Do you want people to link you a bunch of combat logs where rescue killed someone, or denied them uptime for no reason? These types of situations obviously happen, and anyone who runs content regularly has seen it happen plenty of times.

Rescue has been a pretty widely complained about skill for years for many different reasons, and something that causes this much obvious friction is absolutely worth revisiting, whether that means reworking it or removing it altogether. We all know they've removed or reworked other skills over much less.

[Sebazy]

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

Rather amusingly, it is actually possible to quantify how frequently rescue gets used to grief things like Aglaia's Nald Thal Balance mechanic.

Rescue shows up as a cast along with a time stamp and target on logs which is handy

In Verde's case, the only rescue I've found in an uploaded Nald Thal was at 5 minutes in on the tank just after the adds spawned.

Sadly Mheg isn't tracked, but I assume the rescue griefing is about the tightrope section at the last boss, failing that doesn't give a debuff, death or anything though does it? Last I remember it was just a black screen for a few seconds. I'm gonna /shrug that one.

[DeltaCyan]

I'm all for rescue getting removed/reworked. Even when used in good faith it can cause even more damage, some of which the rescuer wont even realize.

Say I'm playing black mage and an aoe appears under me, I know that I can sit in the aoe and can safely slidecast out of it in time. However, the healer uses rescue from the other side of the map. This not only interrupts the cast, but also drags me through other aoes causing me to get hit anyways, and also render me unable to refresh my timers in some cases. I think the worst part is the lack of trust, and lack of accountability on the healers part. In their eyes they did nothing wrong.

I've had situations where the healer does it on purpose in a genuine attempt to be useful, while not understanding the damage they are causing. And others where its a complete accident, fat fingering rescue while trying to use benison or other mitigation in case someone gets hit.

Of course the worst is when actual greifers get their hands on it. Like using rescue to yoink a tank with a cleave into the party stack, and even then they get the convenient excuse of "oops tee-hee fat fingered rescue"

I guess I'm also just upset that this healer "utility" skill survived, when other utility skills get deleted like virus, eye for an eye, largesse, hell even SB cleric stance just to name a few. Meanwhile the janky, unreliable, upsetting ability that disrupts other people stays.

[Sunhwapark]

and lack of accountability on the healers part.

Eh you aren't wrong, the healer role has been coddled to death, it's at a point where you can avoid responsibility for everything whilst simultaneously doing nothing.

[Sebazy]

Even I think the worst part is the lack of trust, and lack of accountability on the healers part. In their eyes they did nothing wrong.

….

Meanwhile the janky, unreliable, upsetting ability that disrupts other people stays.

Lack of accountability? Rescue has one of the most distinctive noises going. It’s pretty obvious who pulled you and if the group is actually paying attention, it’s easy enough to act on it. Eg in the one example where I have seen it used to actually grief in recent times, said healer immediately got vote kicked for it.

And sure it’s janky, but it’s also a useful optimisation tool in Savage. But you don’t care about that now do you? It’s all about the whataboutisms

[Tlamila]

Lack of accountability? Rescue has one of the most distinctive noises going.

Uh i never heard any rescue noise at all. But then my sound effects are set to low volume cause I can't stand them so I only hear the loud skill effects.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Uh i never heard any rescue noise at all. But then my sound effects are set to low volume cause I can't stand them so I only hear the loud skill effects.

That's probably why.

I have mine set on 50 (think that's default?) and it helps me to recognize what's being used by my partymates, especially my co-healer's i.e. like Earthly Star/Sacred Soil/Asylum being put down, Kerachole's, Lustrates, Lily spells, Divination, Chain Strat, Benison, Temperance, you name it! Rescue has a unique sound effect, pretty sure I've never heard anything else like it so it's easy to tell when it's used.