Rescue is Griefing

[Bobby66]

You think it doesn't get used for griefing much because you play healer, it's pretty much every run of Dhon Mheg or every 4-5 runs of crystal tower where I'm not healer is where I see it. GMs also rarely act on reports other than telling you to just blacklist them so that does a whole lot of nothing.

I will bite, let us say it happens to you every 4 to 5 runs of CT, what exactly is your point? That is still in the grand scheme of the amount of players in this game barely statically relevant. Let us be generous and say it happens 5% of every dungeon ran across the board. Do you really think that is large enough percentage that warrants it removal? Or are you going to say that that is more like 20 to 25% or even 50%?

Why take the throw the baby out with the bath water approach for something that is in the grand scheme not very common. Sure it may be common to you, but that is you and I doubt you can say with a straight face that it is common across the board of all players.

[AmiableApkallu]

3) It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

I don't find this to be a compelling argument.

Rescue is an ability limited to combat, and combat in this game has myriad ways of controlling your character directly. Titan throws you in a gaol. Shiva freezes you. Ramuh strikes fear/hysteria into so you mindlessly march toward him and your doom. Ravana tosses you in the air to flail about. Forced knockbacks and stuns. That debuff with the spinning arrow over your head that makes it... "interesting" to control where you walk. Etc. Etc.

An adventurer using Rescue on you at least has the potential for being helpful.

[Semirhage]

It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

I made a troll thread because calling this hysterical lunacy "logic" is awesome. Playing God and controlling my character indeed. The things people in this community will clutch their pearls over.

You don't have logical discussions with people pitching hissy fits. You tell them to get over it.

[ZedxKayn]

I made a troll thread because calling this hysterical lunacy "logic" is awesome. Playing God and controlling my character indeed. The things people in this community will clutch their pearls over.

You don't have logical discussions with people pitching hissy fits. You tell them to get over it.

I bet you don't have that type of reaction when it's someone complaining about the state of healers. To some, the complaints about the state of healing is absolute lunacy, too.

Rescue is disliked because it is intrusive and people will complain about it, like it or not, that's called feedback, and having our flow messed with in an intrusive way like that is a very valid thing to complain about to us even if it's "lunacy" or "pearl clutching" to you. It's just bad game design that makes for a very unpleasant experience even if of course from the healer's perspective, it's just whatever.

[NekoMataMata]

I made a troll thread because calling this hysterical lunacy "logic" is awesome. Playing God and controlling my character indeed. The things people in this community will clutch their pearls over.

You don't have logical discussions with people pitching hissy fits. You tell them to get over it.

I don't see the hissy fit. I see a discussion with valid arguments being put forth. You jumped on a single point out of five, am I supposed to be congratulating you?

We all know how you are though. Rules for us, not for you. You continue to act like an absolute child while trying to present yourself as the face of logic and reason. You know, I think you're right. I do see a hissy fit. It's you again, isn't it? Why don't you just get over it?

[Midareyukki]

I made a troll thread because calling this hysterical lunacy "logic" is awesome. Playing God and controlling my character indeed. The things people in this community will clutch their pearls over.

You don't have logical discussions with people pitching hissy fits. You tell them to get over it.

...define "god mode" for the class, sweetie.

There's a clear range you could have tread before getting to "everyone is insane", from "maybe the way they define god moding isn't the way I would" or "I disagree with the way they're referring to this and don't the situation is that bad\they're exaggerating" as well as "I'm going to put forward why I don't think these points are all that valid and why it is that I feel it's an exaggeration, wholly understanding that this is based on my point of view, my experiences and thus it's my personal opinion". Simply accepting that your understanding of it may be narrower than most people's would have sufficed.

Yet you dearie chose to dive right off the cliff and go straight for the worst and most insulting one. Bravo.

Instead of being polite in how you view the thread, even if you think it's kooky and the people entertaining these thoughts should just touch grass, no you resort to being insulting and shaming. You deride the ability to be logical, much less be courteous.

Are you sure you're not looking at a mirror? Not a single person here has been saying stuff that's too out of the box, and even when disagreed with, people have put forward why they disagree and others chose to accept\not accept as civil as could be asked for.
YOU on the other hand just came in to dump all over the thread, call people stupid and unable to formulate a logical thought and then say that if we disagree with you, we're idiots. You know... like a person throwing a hissy fit would.

If you don't agree, accept it and move on, simple as that. Feel free to say you disagree, by all means, but don't be a jerk about it like you just were if we say "Okay, we see you disagree, but unfortunately people have shown their piece against yours, and your arguments were unconvincing". It doesn't mean people are base apes that can't think and that you're the only one Stable Genius. Because let me tell you: you're not. It just makes you look like a narcissist.

[Enjuden]

I'm sure a button with a 3 minute cooldown is definitely 'god modding', especially since this 'god mod' can be cancelled by Surecast/Arm's Length/Any dash.

Just because a random person you will never see again used it on you or someone else doesn't mean the intent was malicious. Maybe they're trying to use it and mistimed the rescue dash since it is delayed like everything else in XIV. Maybe they actually were malicious. It's hard to tell at a glance, but in the end, does something that happens once in a blue moon even matter, when it helps people who do end game content?

[ZedxKayn]

I'm sure a button with a 3 minute cooldown is definitely 'god modding', especially since this 'god mod' can be cancelled by Surecast/Arm's Length/Any dash.

Just because a random person you will never see again used it on you or someone else doesn't mean the intent was malicious. Maybe they're trying to use it and mistimed the rescue dash since it is delayed like everything else in XIV. Maybe they actually were malicious. It's hard to tell at a glance, but in the end, does something that happens once in a blue moon even matter, when it helps people who do end game content?

Cause it's badly designed. A two-part ability that would allow the healer to cast a rescue "buff" on someone else and then allow the person it got casted on to "resolve" it when they choose within a short time frame after the healer casted it would be much better for endgame content because the person it got casted on would be able to time their uptime perfectly and would allow people not to suffer bad rescues from DF healers who think they know best.

I do not understand why rescue is sacred when it's so janky and intrusive and healer utility, like basically everything else about healers, could be a lot better.

[Enjuden]

Cause it's badly designed. A two-part ability that would allow the healer to cast a rescue "buff" on someone else and then allow the person it got casted on to "resolve" it when they choose within a short time frame after the healer casted it would be much better for endgame content because the person it got casted on would be able to time their uptime perfectly and would allow people not to suffer bad rescues from DF healers who think they know best.

I do not understand why rescue is sacred when it's so janky and intrusive and healer utility, like basically everything else about healers, could be a lot better.

Huh, that's a good idea

Usually people jump to outright removal instead of going to a direction that might improve the ability, so that's why some treat it 'sacred'.

[Packetdancer]

Cause it's badly designed. A two-part ability that would allow the healer to cast a rescue "buff" on someone else and then allow the person it got casted on to "resolve" it when they choose within a short time frame after the healer casted it would be much better for endgame content because the person it got casted on would be able to time their uptime perfectly and would allow people not to suffer bad rescues from DF healers who think they know best.

While I agree in theory, I strongly suspect the apply-a-buff/accept-the-move system would be even jankier than Rescue itself, timing-wise; as it is, when someone applies a buff to the entire party you can watch the buffs sort of spiral outwards -- sometimes a mitigation or heal will only apply to half the party before the damage goes out. Now, granted this is seemingly a side-effect of how AoE buffs get applied; a single-target scenario could at least avoid that, but it demonstrates that this game's netcode ain't super great at response times sometimes.

Relying on the action -> server, buff applied on server -> sent to client (and "accept" action becomes available) -> "accept" action used -> server, and then person moved... that's a lot of potential timing jank.

But, as previously mentioned, I've developed trust issues where this game's netcode is concerned.

(One reason I thought about the Salvation proc-off-of-buff system is that once the buff is applied, the entirety of the rest happens on the server, meaning you can cut the netcode out of the picture after the initial ability that would apply the buff.)

Now, if you allowed it to be applied enough in advance, you could probably ensure there's enough time that the buff is applied and the action available ahead of time, and thus avoid the jank. Or at least, avoid any greater potential jank than, say, Shukuchi or Aetherial Manipulation can suffer from on bad days. Though it would probably still not work super well for the Syrcus Tower situation or the pull-the-stack-marker-back-to-the-group in Dun Scaith, because even if you fired the ability off in time, in both cases the person generally doesn't know they're about to die so probably wouldn't hit the "accept" button and zip over.

The only other issue I see is that you'd almost certainly need to use the rarely-used "Duty Action II" slot for it; you can't use the more common Duty Action I because there are raids (like Deltascape v2.0, with the gravity mechanic) and trials (like the Vril in the Lakshmi trial) that require the duty action. That's not a problem in 98% of content, since Duty Action II is almost never used... but it would be non-viable in exploratory zones—Eureka and Bozja—where both duty actions are actually used. (For Logos Actions in Eureka or Lost Actions in Bozja.)

But that may not be a deal-breaker for some.