Rescue is Griefing

[NekoMataMata]

Snip

You haven't seen people on the pro-rescue side making troll threads and calling people names for disagreeing with them then. You want to talk about logic though, so sure, let's talk.

1) It's awkward to use due to the delay between it moving the player in question and from when it's been used. There are also some weird interactions with certain game mechanics since knockbacks, teleports and pulls all override each other.

2) A lot of players find it disorientating when used on them, especially if they're a player that had a plan in mind for moving to a safe zone. Imagine Rescueing a DRG or RDM and they suddenly flip away back into danger because they were intending to flip away from the danger prior to your attempted Rescue.

3) It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

4) Most healers aren't skilled enough to use it properly either. In addition to the delay between cast and activation a lot of healers are woefully unaware of the fact that rescue moves their target to where they are standing when they cast it, rather than where they are located when the ability goes off. In combination with the earlier issues, most healers also don't have the aptitude to assess their team and make decisions on whether the player in question can handle themselves or not. That DPS that just hit one of their movement abilities making them fall into the danger zone right after said healer Rescued was playing fine for 90% of the dungeon. That Tank that was standing at the edge of the healer's earthly star/asylum/sacred soil during a pull was moving out of the way of a bunch of aoe markers before said healer dragged them back into them. Said tank had never moved out of their abilities prior, yet again, said healer didn't bother to judge the situation.

5) On top of it all, we have people abusing it for their own amusement. Some people enjoy Rescueing players to their deaths. Some people use it to leash their tanks, pulling them along through the dungeon every 2 minutes. People in this very thread have admitted to doing this even.

Do what you will with these reasonings but at the least please respect the fact that they were laid out without calling the other players in this thread incompetent and without aggressive name calling.

[Nyxs]

You haven't seen people on the pro-rescue side making troll threads and calling people names for disagreeing with them then. You want to talk about logic though, so sure, let's talk.


3) It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

Do what you will with these reasonings but at the least please respect the fact that they were laid out without calling the other players in this thread incompetent and without aggressive name calling.

No one is going to take you seriously nor respect someone who cant tell the difference between roleplay and a role-playing game. Perhaps take this part out and you’ll have a slight chance. This isn’t godmodding at all because of the difference. You perhaps need to think really really hard on why you feel this way and find ways to deal with that instead of being worried about a skill in a video game.

[AmiableApkallu]

3) It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

I don't find this to be a compelling argument.

Rescue is an ability limited to combat, and combat in this game has myriad ways of controlling your character directly. Titan throws you in a gaol. Shiva freezes you. Ramuh strikes fear/hysteria into so you mindlessly march toward him and your doom. Ravana tosses you in the air to flail about. Forced knockbacks and stuns. That debuff with the spinning arrow over your head that makes it... "interesting" to control where you walk. Etc. Etc.

An adventurer using Rescue on you at least has the potential for being helpful.

[Semirhage]

It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

I made a troll thread because calling this hysterical lunacy "logic" is awesome. Playing God and controlling my character indeed. The things people in this community will clutch their pearls over.

You don't have logical discussions with people pitching hissy fits. You tell them to get over it.

[ZedxKayn]

I made a troll thread because calling this hysterical lunacy "logic" is awesome. Playing God and controlling my character indeed. The things people in this community will clutch their pearls over.

You don't have logical discussions with people pitching hissy fits. You tell them to get over it.

I bet you don't have that type of reaction when it's someone complaining about the state of healers. To some, the complaints about the state of healing is absolute lunacy, too.

Rescue is disliked because it is intrusive and people will complain about it, like it or not, that's called feedback, and having our flow messed with in an intrusive way like that is a very valid thing to complain about to us even if it's "lunacy" or "pearl clutching" to you. It's just bad game design that makes for a very unpleasant experience even if of course from the healer's perspective, it's just whatever.

[Gemina]

Rescue is disliked because it is intrusive and people will complain about it, like it or not, that's called feedback, and having our flow messed with in an intrusive way like that is a very valid thing to complain about to us even if it's "lunacy" or "pearl clutching" to you. It's just bad game design that makes for a very unpleasant experience even if of course from the healer's perspective, it's just whatever.

The issue your argument has is your not stating why it is bad game design. I know you think that being yanked from your position is bad game design, but feelings and anecdotal evidence doesn't actually equate to bad design. You would actually need to provide solid evidence that the skill is causing fundamental issues in PvE content. And based on your arguments, you would actually have to prove that clears are harder to obtain because healers are severely reducing group DPS through the abusive use of Rescue. Good luck with that.

The other issue is the complete and utter inability to even listen to those in favor of Rescue, and their reasoning behind it. They have actually stated valid reasons not based on feelings or anecdotal evidence to give strength to their arguments. Whether you want to believe it or not, Rescue has saved a lot of players from eating dirt. It has been used in prog strats. It does require skill to use it effectively. These are all facts. I know it sucks to get punched in the face with the truth, but it is what it is.

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

[LittleImp]

The issue your argument has is your not stating why it is bad game design. I know you think that being yanked from your position is bad game design, but feelings and anecdotal evidence doesn't actually equate to bad design. You would actually need to provide solid evidence that the skill is causing fundamental issues in PvE content. And based on your arguments, you would actually have to prove that clears are harder to obtain because healers are severely reducing group DPS through the abusive use of Rescue. Good luck with that.

The other issue is the complete and utter inability to even listen to those in favor of Rescue, and their reasoning behind it. They have actually stated valid reasons not based on feelings or anecdotal evidence to give strength to their arguments. Whether you want to believe it or not, Rescue has saved a lot of players from eating dirt. It has been used in prog strats. It does require skill to use it effectively. These are all facts. I know it sucks to get punched in the face with the truth, but it is what it is.

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

A skill being unfun is actually a completely acceptable justification for asking for it to be removed or reworked. I literally do not know a single person that 'enjoys' being on the receiving end of Rescue. I do know a few healers who constantly gloat about using it though, and they're the same type of cringeworthy "I DECIDE WHO LIVES AND DIES" healers that everyone just kind of awkwardly laughs off and then avoids partying with.

People have provided plenty of reasonable arguments about why the skill is unfun or has an otherwise negative impact on party performance. You've just arbitrarily decided that their feedback is invalid because you don't agree with it, and are leaning into your own anecdotes and feelings while dismissing others whom you feel are doing the same. I'm not really sure what kind of evidence you want; Do you want people to link you a bunch of combat logs where rescue killed someone, or denied them uptime for no reason? These types of situations obviously happen, and anyone who runs content regularly has seen it happen plenty of times.

Rescue has been a pretty widely complained about skill for years for many different reasons, and something that causes this much obvious friction is absolutely worth revisiting, whether that means reworking it or removing it altogether. We all know they've removed or reworked other skills over much less.

[Sebazy]

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

Rather amusingly, it is actually possible to quantify how frequently rescue gets used to grief things like Aglaia's Nald Thal Balance mechanic.

Rescue shows up as a cast along with a time stamp and target on logs which is handy

In Verde's case, the only rescue I've found in an uploaded Nald Thal was at 5 minutes in on the tank just after the adds spawned.

Sadly Mheg isn't tracked, but I assume the rescue griefing is about the tightrope section at the last boss, failing that doesn't give a debuff, death or anything though does it? Last I remember it was just a black screen for a few seconds. I'm gonna /shrug that one.

[DeltaCyan]

I'm all for rescue getting removed/reworked. Even when used in good faith it can cause even more damage, some of which the rescuer wont even realize.

Say I'm playing black mage and an aoe appears under me, I know that I can sit in the aoe and can safely slidecast out of it in time. However, the healer uses rescue from the other side of the map. This not only interrupts the cast, but also drags me through other aoes causing me to get hit anyways, and also render me unable to refresh my timers in some cases. I think the worst part is the lack of trust, and lack of accountability on the healers part. In their eyes they did nothing wrong.

I've had situations where the healer does it on purpose in a genuine attempt to be useful, while not understanding the damage they are causing. And others where its a complete accident, fat fingering rescue while trying to use benison or other mitigation in case someone gets hit.

Of course the worst is when actual greifers get their hands on it. Like using rescue to yoink a tank with a cleave into the party stack, and even then they get the convenient excuse of "oops tee-hee fat fingered rescue"

I guess I'm also just upset that this healer "utility" skill survived, when other utility skills get deleted like virus, eye for an eye, largesse, hell even SB cleric stance just to name a few. Meanwhile the janky, unreliable, upsetting ability that disrupts other people stays.

[Sunhwapark]

and lack of accountability on the healers part.

Eh you aren't wrong, the healer role has been coddled to death, it's at a point where you can avoid responsibility for everything whilst simultaneously doing nothing.