Rescue is Griefing

[Seredeelfer]

Yesterday I rescued a player to hide behind the Mammoth in the Rathlos trial - they had already died on previous pulls to not hiding.

A week ago I rescued a tank to hide behind the crystal in Syrcus Tower.

Rescue was important for O12S Hello World.

Sorry to hear you've been trolled by it, I'm not even a skilled healer and can use it for the benefit of the casual team.

[NekoMataMata]

Yesterday I rescued a player to hide behind the Mammoth in the Rathlos trial - they had already died on previous pulls to not hiding.

A week ago I rescued a tank to hide behind the crystal in Syrcus Tower.

Rescue was important for O12S Hello World.

Sorry to hear you've been trolled by it, I'm not even a skilled healer and can use it for the benefit of the casual team.

I've used it for similar purposes such as saving a confused player during the first boss of the dead ends during the big aoe and other players from other issues but...

it's actually still awkward.

This is a RPG and to me Rescue is essentially god modeing. I am forcibly moving another player from their location to my location. During the rescue I am playing the game for that player.

It doesn't matter how useful the ability is, it's broken and it really shouldn't be a thing. I realize how frustrating it is to have to res someone or watch someone fail mechs, but I really don't see why healers should be able to change that and carry other players in that regard.

[HyoMinPark]

I've used it for similar purposes such as saving a confused player during the first boss of the dead ends during the big aoe and other players from other issues but...

it's actually still awkward.

This is a RPG and to me Rescue is essentially god modeing. I am forcibly moving another player from their location to my location. During the rescue I am playing the game for that player.

It doesn't matter how useful the ability is, it's broken and it really shouldn't be a thing. I realize how frustrating it is to have to res someone or watch someone fail mechs, but I really don't see why healers should be able to change that and carry other players in that regard.

Respectfully, I don’t consider an ability that you can only use once every 2 minutes “god modeing”. As a healer, it is your job to keep your team alive. If Rescuing them to safety during a mechanic is how you do it, then that’s that. Rescue is the least overpowered ability in a healer’s kit, to be honest.

I'm always amused when a player is Rescued to where they need to be or a safe spot - then run right back to where they were.

Me, too. Doubly so if them running back to where they were results in them eating a mechanic and dying. At that point, I just kind of go “Well, I tried”.

[NekoMataMata]

Respectfully, I don’t consider an ability that you can only use once every 2 minutes “god modeing”. As a healer, it is your job to keep your team alive. If Rescuing them to safety during a mechanic is how you do it, then that’s that. Rescue is the least overpowered ability in a healer’s kit, to be honest.

I mean it's not the most overpowered ability in a healer's kit but it is definitely god modeing. Every two minutes if you have a problematic teammate you get to play the game for them to a degree. No other class has the ability to displace another player, to make another player participate or properly perform a mechanic.

But even then, there's too much abuse with it. It's also a heavy case of "healer knows best" where a lot of times egomaniacal healers use it thinking they're helping and they end up damaging the party instead(i.e. that one healer that decided I wasn't moving quickly enough to the rest of the party with my stack marker and ended up sling shotting me away from them instead). I regularly hear about healers, new or old using it to drag tanks through dungeons as if they were dogs on leashes. For all the good it does, it seems to be used poorly just as many times.

[HyoMinPark]

I mean it's not the most overpowered ability in a healer's kit but it is definitely god modeing. Every two minutes if you have a problematic teammate you get to play the game for them to a degree. No other class has the ability to displace another player, to make another player participate or properly perform a mechanic.

I still disagree. Rescue isn’t a god mode skill. It’s there to provide assistance if it’s needed. There’s no encounter where you’d even be using it on cooldown, and outside of specific coordinates incidents (e.g., Hello World Rescue in O12S), when and where it’s used is completely random.

If I have a problematic teammate, I just let them hit the floor and hope they are laying there thinking about what they’ve done. If they continue to be problematic, then I simply stop wasting my mana on raising them. (I only make an exception for people who are new and don’t know the mechanics.) That’s more “god mode” than Rescue, in my opinion.

But even then, there's too much abuse with it.

Then report the abuse; but it’s usage is never a clear cut case of abuse (in GM terms) unless blatantly stated by the healer Rescuing. How many uses are actually abuse and how many are simply construed that way due to negative bias?

Mistiming a Rescue isn’t abuse. Misjudging where the person being Rescued to isn’t abuse. It happens the same way mistiming a heal does. It’s an honest mistake, but it seems like a lot of people want to call a healer mistiming their skill “abusing” or “griefing” someone.

It's also a heavy case of "healer knows best" where a lot of times egomaniacal healers use it thinking they're helping and they end up damaging the party instead(i.e. that one healer that decided I wasn't moving quickly enough to the rest of the party with my stack marker and ended up sling shotting me away from them instead).

Rescue pulls you to the healer. How did it slingshot you away from them? I’m assuming the healer was already with the party, so it makes no sense for you to ping pong away from them if they use the skill. That said, I can understand trying to Rescue someone with a stack marker because, far too often and far more often than I see people Rescuing, people run away with the stack and end up killing themselves and anyone foolish enough to try to follow.

This seems to be a misjudgment on the healer’s part, which, again, is not an abuse of the skill. Healers aren’t perfect beings who never make a mistake. Something else to also keep in mind is that you might not have appeared to be moving on their screen. There is a delay between when you start moving and when other players actually see you moving.

In short, I don’t think this situation is as nefarious as you’re making it seem.

I regularly hear about healers, new or old using it to drag tanks through dungeons as if they were dogs on leashes. For all the good it does, it seems to be used poorly just as many times.

I have heard this, but I’ve done many dungeon runs and never actually seen it. That said, you are still blaming the tool because of the player using it.

[NekoMataMata]

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I don't think I'm perfect or that I don't need help at times, but I've had rescue kill me more times than save me sadly. If anything your response seems like a projection. You seem to think that you are the ultimate healer who can do no wrong.

Snip

Raising someone isn't god moding? You're sacrificing 2000 MP and Swiftcast(sometimes, othertimes just valuable time) to bring someone back who you then have to heal and who then has the weakness status for almost two minutes. That's pretty fair, isn't it?

And no, what happened is they rescued me as we were both running towards the rest of the party. The party wasn't even that far away, and right as I got to the party I was pulled right back to where they had cast rescue. Perhaps they lagged and saw me far behind them, who knows, but considering I was out performing them for the entire fight, they should have kept to themselves. Also I love how you make the assumption that they were already with the party. Honestly, that alone voids the majority of your arguments.

And since you're so confident that mistiming or misjudging a rescue is not abuse, then I assure you, from now on I will report all failed instances of rescue that result in the death of the one being "rescued." We'll find out if it's punishable or not by whether or not the GMs take action.

Snip

And people are sitting here defending the action, while you're sitting here bragging about breaking the rules with it why, exactly?

[HyoMinPark]

Raising someone isn't god moding? You're sacrificing 2000 MP and Swiftcast(sometimes, othertimes just valuable time) to bring someone back who you then have to heal and who then has the weakness status for almost two minutes. That's pretty fair, isn't it?

You misunderstand. I’m not talking about simply raising. I’m talking about how I can pick and choose who to raise. Like the “problematic” teammate that dies repeatedly. Perhaps even one that I’ve Rescued into closer range so that they can get healed, and they just run right back out of it and miss subsequent healing. That’s more god modeing than being able to pull someone to me once every 2 minutes since now I’m choosing if they are raised to actively participate.

Rescue isn’t god modeing. If it is, then simply playing a healer is god modeing because healers determine if you live or die.

And no, what happened is they rescued me as we were both running towards the rest of the party. The party wasn't even that far away, and right as I got to the party I was pulled right back to where they had cast rescue. Perhaps they lagged and saw me far behind them, who knows, but considering I was out performing them for the entire fight, they should have kept to themselves. Also I love how you make the assumption that they were already with the party. Honestly, that alone voids the majority of your arguments.

Then perhaps do a better job of explaining what happened if you don’t want people assuming? I do wonder how you know you were out performing them the entire time, though. Quite curious…

And since you're so confident that mistiming or misjudging a rescue is not abuse,

That’s because it is not. Unless you want to say a healer making a mistake—which is what a misjudgment or mistiming is—is also abuse. Do you consider a WHM mistiming their Cure III and the healing propagation causing two party members furthest away to die due to the game not registering the heal fast enough abuse as well? What about if a healer misjudged the minimum amount of HP needed to live the next raidwide and someone dies from that?

then I assure you, from now on I will report all failed instances of rescue that result in the death of the one being "rescued." We'll find out if it's punishable or not by whether or not the GMs take action.

Considering you will never know if they take action or not per GM policy, seems like a pointless endeavor to me. But you must be fun to have in parties if your solution is to threaten reports for every little thing that upsets you or accidentally gets you killed.

Btw, the reports would only be accepted if you were the person involved. GMs don’t respond to third party reports that don’t involve you. So if you report the WHM for “griefing and killing” a BLM with Rescue, then definitely nothing will happen because you aren’t the BLM involved.

[Bobby66]

I don't think I'm perfect or that I don't need help at times, but I've had rescue kill me more times than save me sadly. If anything your response seems like a projection. You seem to think that you are the ultimate healer who can do no wrong.



Raising someone isn't god moding? You're sacrificing 2000 MP and Swiftcast(sometimes, othertimes just valuable time) to bring someone back who you then have to heal and who then has the weakness status for almost two minutes. That's pretty fair, isn't it?

And no, what happened is they rescued me as we were both running towards the rest of the party. The party wasn't even that far away, and right as I got to the party I was pulled right back to where they had cast rescue. Perhaps they lagged and saw me far behind them, who knows, but considering I was out performing them for the entire fight, they should have kept to themselves. Also I love how you make the assumption that they were already with the party. Honestly, that alone voids the majority of your arguments.

And since you're so confident that mistiming or misjudging a rescue is not abuse, then I assure you, from now on I will report all failed instances of rescue that result in the death of the one being "rescued." We'll find out if it's punishable or not by whether or not the GMs take action.



And people are sitting here defending the action, while you're sitting here bragging about breaking the rules with it why, exactly?

Cause this is a non issue that is why. It is a 2 min cooldown relax. Also you will be hard pressed to prove it was done with malicious intent, or are you advocating for a a throw the baby out with the bath water approach? Also would not say I was bragging was mostly juts confirming that some do use it as a tank a leash.

[Sebazy]

II regularly hear about healers, new or old using it to drag tanks through dungeons as if they were dogs on leashes. For all the good it does, it seems to be used poorly just as many times.

And how do you 'drag a tank through dungeons as if they were dogs on leashes' with an ability on a 2 minute cooldown?

I'd wonder if the tank was simply afk, but then they wouldn't be in combat and rescue wouldn't work anyway.

[Padudu]

And how do you 'drag a tank through dungeons as if they were dogs on leashes' with an ability on a 2 minute cooldown?

I'd wonder if the tank was simply afk, but then they wouldn't be in combat and rescue wouldn't work anyway.

Yeah there's no way that isn't an exaggeration.

Also, wouldn't this be on the tank then? They are likely doing something weird, AFK, or dragging feet through wet concrete for them to feel like they were being dragged like dogs lol? It would definitely be more than the healer at that point, as most dungeon runs the healer should be beside the tank or the tank is running ahead.