Rescue is Griefing

[Padudu]

If you're sick of being rescued then do the mechanics correctly

edit: but also seriously, I'm sure rescue trolling happens but usually it's either 1)a healer fatfingered or 2) mistake with good intentions. I can't remember the last time someone had to pop rescue in DF tbh

[LittleImp]

If you're sick of being rescued then do the mechanics correctly

While you're probably joking, that type of mentality is more or less exactly where a lot of the friction around rescue comes from. As a former BLM main and now greedy Tank, I've had way way too many instances over the years of someone rescuing me out of a completely safe situation simply because their own ignorance lead them to believe I was doing something wrong. Rotations in this game are very rigid, so that kind of unnecessary disruption is at best an annoying dps loss, and at worst ends up getting the rescue'd person killed. (I've been rescued a bunch of times straight out of a safe spot and into a healer that had read the mechanic wrong, only to watch us both die..)

Most players should really just focus on their own execution, and definitely shouldn't be given the ability to forcibly take control of another players positioning without their consent. I've always felt it should be restricted in some ways to preformed parties or an opt-in system, as it does have niche utility.

[Padudu]

While you're probably joking, that type of mentality is more or less exactly where a lot of the friction around rescue comes from. As a former BLM main and now greedy Tank, I've had way way too many instances over the years of someone rescuing me out of a completely safe situation simply because their own ignorance lead them to believe I was doing something wrong. Rotations in this game are very rigid, so that kind of unnecessary disruption is at best an annoying dps loss, and at worst ends up getting the rescue'd person killed. (I've been rescued a bunch of times straight out of a safe spot and into a healer that had read the mechanic wrong, only to watch us both die..)

Most players should really just focus on their own execution, and definitely shouldn't be given the ability to forcibly take control of another players positioning without their consent. I've always felt it should be restricted in some ways to preformed parties or an opt-in system, as it does have niche utility.

I was absolutely memeing there lol, but yeah I totally get that sometimes you just get the over-vigilant healer trying to do the right thing and just completely fucking you over instead. That being said I still wouldn't want rescue to go away due to silly mistakes like that; I understand dps rotation is a thing but at the very least it's a "yo, pls don't do that, I know what's up". If they continue? Kick/report.

Personally, I don't rescue unless I 100% absolutely know they're going to die or they just suddenly afk in the dangerzone or something. I do agree that rescue in itself is nice to have for those niche little situations, frequent or infrequent as they may be. I do think that maybe it could be opt-in as a middle ground, too, or maybe a way to cancel being rescued that doesn't cancel out what you're currently doing. I think that way healers (or some of them, anyways) will be happy with keeping their rescue and everyone can have a way to cancel it out without missing a beat.

[HyoMinPark]

I use Rescue to pull individuals into things like Sacred Soil, Asylum, and Earthly Star (yes, there are still people that manage to miss that thing…), and I don’t consider that griefing. I’m actively trying to keep the person healed. It’s more griefing for them to stand so far out of range they miss all of the AOE heals the healers are throwing out, in my opinion. I have also pulled people to safety on occasion when I know a mechanic will otherwise kill them. If they can live eating it, I will not Rescue.

I do consider it griefing when a healer Rescues someone and the person tells them to not do so, and then the healer continues to do it. I was running Orbonne this weekend, and the other healer in my alliance Rescued a friend of mine away from the boss when Mustadio is doing the two Rook Turrets that create a quadrant AOE. Where my friend was standing was 100% safe, but the healer still Rescued them clear the the very edge of the arena. They asked for them to please not Rescue them because they were safe and know what will kill them and what won’t, and the healer continued to Rescue them in future bosses despite them not being in danger. That’s griefing, but I can’t say I see it happen all that often.

On a more positive note, I was Rescued in Dun Scaith when all three tanks died and I was tanking Diabolos Hollow on WHM. My cohealer Rescued me away from him while a tank raised so that I was far enough away to outrun his auto attacks (which were doing about 90% of my health). That was an A+ Rescue imo, and it kept me alive.

Edit: I forgot to add that Rescue is also useful for breaking the animation lock LBs have. The healer I cohealed with during this tier of Savage and I would coordinate Rescuing the other if we were running together and had to healer LB3 for any reason. Very useful if you end up trapped in incoming AOEs and can’t move because of the animation locking you in place for several seconds. Also just allows you to get back into your rotation faster.

[Skivvy]

I use Rescue to pull individuals into things like Sacred Soil, Asylum, and Earthly Star (yes, there are still people that manage to miss that thing…), and I don’t consider that griefing. I’m actively trying to keep the person healed. It’s more griefing for them to stand so far out of range they miss all of the AOE heals the healers are throwing out, in my opinion.

Hate to snip this post so much as I agreed with a lot of the other stuff mentioned, but the above situation, to me, is going a bit too far with rescue. By no means am I saying that I think it's griefing, I think it's just a bit too extra. If I have people outside my bubble, I'll normally only say something in chat if they're reeeally needing it (like if the party is hurting big time, eating all the mechs, etc). And if they still don't move in? Well they're either not reading chat or just being dense, so eh.

People who like to hang out in the boonies.....those seem to be a constant always. lol. I tend to take the same approach though. If they're sucking and needing a lot of healing but too far out for my AoE heals/shields, I might say something in chat if it's getting obnoxious. If they still don't move in, I'll still keep an eye on them and heal when I can, but they won't be my #1 priority. Not going to yoink em closer though. :3

As far as my own usage, I pretty much keep it to alliance raids only. If someone is on the wrong side of Hasbhrown's fire arm, those mechs with the spinning hands where you have to get to a circle, not hiding behind ice, etc. But yeah, if I think I can save em, I'll try...sometimes. There have definitely been times I've yoinked a dead body back to me. lol.

[HyoMinPark]

Hate to snip this post so much as I agreed with a lot of the other stuff mentioned, but the above situation, to me, is going a bit too far with rescue. By no means am I saying that I think it's griefing, I think it's just a bit too extra. If I have people outside my bubble, I'll normally only say something in chat if they're reeeally needing it (like if the party is hurting big time, eating all the mechs, etc). And if they still don't move in? Well they're either not reading chat or just being dense, so eh.

People who like to hang out in the boonies.....those seem to be a constant always. lol. I tend to take the same approach though. If they're sucking and needing a lot of healing but too far out for my AoE heals/shields, I might say something in chat if it's getting obnoxious. If they still don't move in, I'll still keep an eye on them and heal when I can, but they won't be my #1 priority. Not going to yoink em closer though. :3

I disagree, and here’s why.

For one, I play with a controller, so having to put down my controller to type in chat is generally not the first thing I do. Especially since people ignore chat half the time anyways.

Second, I’ve already tried the approach of “type in chat to tell people to move in” and they either ignore or just tell me to single-target them. I’m not going to deal with that, so now I choose to Rescue. I do it ONCE. If they move out, I leave them to their fate. If they die due to lack of heals and say something about it, I just respond that I tried to pull them closer so they received heals and they ran away and missed them all.

And this isn’t even something I do all the time. Honestly depends on my mood. If I’m in an aggressive healer sort of mood, I just let them die, raise, and say nothing unless they make a comment. They can deal with their bad decision. If I’m feeling more like I want to keep them alive, then I do the Rescue approach. Results are honestly mixed; some stay in the bubble and I’m guessing they realized what I was doing. Others just run away and I let them hit the floor if they refuse to move in and subsequently die.

I fail to see how this is any extra than moving someone to the safe side of an arena to avoid a cleave. Both are to save them from potentially dying, so they don’t really seem all that different to me.

[Avatre]

I disagree, and here’s why.

For one, I play with a controller, so having to put down my controller to type in chat is generally not the first thing I do. Especially since people ignore chat half the time anyways.

Second, I’ve already tried the approach of “type in chat to tell people to move in” and they either ignore or just tell me to single-target them. I’m not going to deal with that, so now I choose to Rescue. I do it ONCE. If they move out, I leave them to their fate. If they die due to lack of heals and say something about it, I just respond that I tried to pull them closer so they received heals and they ran away and missed them all.

And this isn’t even something I do all the time. Honestly depends on my mood. If I’m in an aggressive healer sort of move, I just let them die and say nothing. They can deal with their bad decision. If I’m feeling more like I want to keep them alive, then I do the Rescue approach. Results are honestly mixed; some stay in the bubble and I’m guessing they realized what I was doing. Others just run away and I let them hit the floor if they refuse to move in.

I fail to see how this is any extra than moving someone to the safe side of an arena to avoid a cleave. Both are to save them from dying, so they don’t really seem all that different to me.

Narnians choose their fate when they stay way out there, or move back out there after being rescued. Leave them to their self imposed fate(I don't even heal them directly if they keep running out there because an AoE heal was good enough for the rest of the party to be topped up).

[HyoMinPark]

Narnians choose their fate when they stay way out there, or move back out there after being rescued. Leave them to their self imposed fate(I don't even heal them directly if they keep running out there because an AoE heal was good enough for the rest of the party to be topped up).

As I said, I already do this regardless of if I choose to Rescue or not; and if they move away after a Rescue.

[Skivvy]

I disagree, and here’s why.

For one, I play with a controller, so having to put down my controller to type in chat is generally not the first thing I do. Especially since people ignore chat half the time anyways.

Second, I’ve already tried the approach of “type in chat to tell people to move in” and they either ignore or just tell me to single-target them. I’m not going to deal with that, so now I choose to Rescue. I do it ONCE. If they move out, I leave them to their fate. If they die due to lack of heals and say something about it, I just respond that I tried to pull them closer so they received heals and they ran away and missed them all.

And this isn’t even something I do all the time. Honestly depends on my mood. If I’m in an aggressive healer sort of mood, I just let them die, raise, and say nothing unless they make a comment. They can deal with their bad decision. If I’m feeling more like I want to keep them alive, then I do the Rescue approach. Results are honestly mixed; some stay in the bubble and I’m guessing they realized what I was doing. Others just run away and I let them hit the floor if they refuse to move in and subsequently die.

I fail to see how this is any extra than moving someone to the safe side of an arena to avoid a cleave. Both are to save them from potentially dying, so they don’t really seem all that different to me.

I play on PC, so while it's still not the easiest to type during combat, I'd still prefer to say something quick in chat (if it's truly an issue) and let them fix it on their own vs. just doing it for them with no communication.

As to why I feel pulling them into a bubble is extra, as mentioned above, I typically only use it in alliance raids on moves that will kill the player. In my experience, standing in a bubble isn't going to be the determining factor for whether or not they die.

[HyoMinPark]

As to why I feel pulling them into a bubble is extra, as mentioned above, I typically only use it in alliance raids on moves that will kill the player. In my experience, standing in a bubble isn't going to be the determining factor for whether or not they die.

I disagree. Running Orbonne Monastery during the current Moogle event, I drop Asylum during the mini-boss prior to TGC. When he does the three back to back raid wides (after his add portals you have to stand on and the two sets of 3 line AOEs), dropping an Asylum and having one other HoT is enough to keep the entire party alive during all three without any additional healing needed. Someone standing outside of the Asylum does not get those extra HoT ticks from it and will drop dead by the third one as a result. This is just one example that is fresh in my mind since I’ve ran Orbonne enough for several hundred tomes since the event started.

Likewise, Earthly Star’s Giant Dominance detonation is enough to heal players up so that a subsequent raidwide is survivable without having to use extra healing tools. You’d be surprised at how people manage to still miss the Earthly Galaxy, but it makes more difference than you’re suggesting. Sacred Soils mitigation + regen at level 78+ also makes a lot of difference when people stand under it. Enough so that I don’t have to waste an oGCD resource (or GCD) on them.

EDIT: Another example I thought of is during Diabolos Hollow’s ultimate attack. Did you know that if you don’t have at least one aspect of mitigation on it (a barrier, Reprisal, Addle, or something like Sacred Soil/Kerachole), people will die from it? Usually the casters, physical ranged, and healers, since they have less HP. I found this out during the last Moogle event when my alliance was double WHM and there was no use of Addle, Feint, or Reprisal on the boss. I was overkilled by 500, which is literally damage variance. Everyone in my party was full HP, so it wasn’t like the kill was a result of missing health. Something like Kerachole, Soil, or even a GCD shield would have kept me (and half my alliance) alive.

It was truly amusing to see, though. The stat squish did do wonders for making that raid actually hurt a little bit again.