Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

[EaraGrace]

Even if you argue they are sympathetic and the WoL is given reactions that indicate sympathy the player may not feel, they are still opposed to the Ascians. They are not, and never are, opposed to Venat. They are happy to go along with her goals and methods.

So ultimately the issue you have is that Venats actions, that you feel are unjust, create dissonance not because how the narrative treats them, but because they are not in opposition to our own goals? That has no bearing on narrative dissonance. One can write Venat off as evil or wrong and still have no cause to undo her actions.

Secondly, not all dissonance is created equal..

With all due respect I think you are completely wrong on this. The apologism the game offers the Ancients is just as egregious. The fact that men who buried billions because they didn't believe they were human and wished to bring about their ideal world are framed as "understandable" says it all. The only response we give to Emets arguments in SHB is that we are here and that gives the right to fight. We don't argue that its wrong for him to kill and slaughter to bring back his friends. Hell, even after everything they did we are still encouraged to befriend the man possessing the corpse of dead hero who intends to slaughter an entire world for no reason other than he misses his friends! All one has to do is look at the way the Scions treat Emet in Ultima Thule to see the problem. You are understating the level of narrative dissonance the game brings about in those moments.

Frankly, in prior cases of dissonance, I didn’t bother speaking up because I didn’t care enough.

And there is the point I'm trying to make. This isn't the narrative doing something it hasn't in the past. This is about whether one personally finds the dissonance too much, which is ultimately based on subjectivity. The latitude of acceptance after all varies from person to person.

Maybe there are others who feel differently, but I love this game and want to be able to keep loving the game. That’s it. I never wanted to be this uncomfortable with the Hydaelyn plotline. As I’ve posted before, I was practically begging and was eager to LOVE her as a character. I guarantee I am not singling out Venat for any particular reason, whether it because she was opposed to the Ascians (G'raha Tia's visceral dislike for Emet-Selch is literally my favorite thing about him, and I was cheering on Tiamat for basically cussing them out, because both characters absolutely have the right to feel that way), because she is a woman, or any other reason. I promise that I really, really did not want to end up here!

I don't need you to justify your feelings, your allowed to feel as you wish. But understand that the extensive changes others advocate for, that I believe you to argue for, run counter to what I wish to see from this game and would in fact run counter to the things others would as well. I'm sure an understanding can be met, and believe me I actually do appreciate the way the Omega quests try's do just that. But the extent of change to which you apparently feel is necessary would take away a huge part of the story that I enjoy.

Looking at what the Unsundered get after their equivalent "reveal" as Elpis in Venat and learning she had good intentions, knowing basically all the information about them, what they were trying to do, and why, we still get:

Elidibus's actions, methods, and mindset being condemned in very strong terms:

Which was immediately preceded by a moment where the game draws a direct parallel between Graha himself and Elidibus in all the ways you mentioned.

...Elidibus spoke in similar terms, you say? How curious.

I cherish the time I spent with you and the others. What I wouldn't give to return to those halcyon days...

Chasing ancient secrets, overcoming trial after trial with the aid of like-minded comrades...

And what remarkable comrades they were. In such company, I felt as if I were a character in the epic tales that had stirred my heart as a boy. As if my dream had come true...

It hadn't, of course, for I was no hero. Neither then nor after. Though the world to which I awakened, and the First were beset with myriad problems, I rarely knew how best to play my part.

There was, however, one thing of which I was certain: that I could not bear to let those dear to me meet a tragic end.

You are given plenty of reason to view Graha's statement as ironic or downright hypocritical.

When did anyone in the game, especially relative to the equivalent period where we already understood the Ascians’ sympathetic motives, extend this kind of language and criticism towards Venat, let alone coming from our allies and friends as we recruit them to continue opposing the Ascians?

So to you the only acceptable solution would be an ally, a named and voiced character, who knows what we know, condemning Venat for what she did.

Ok. I'm not opposed to that. If that's all then I think that's personally fine. Renaming minions, rewriting the Unending Codex however, is too much,

Once again, the comparative "sympathy" toward their actions would be glorifying Emet-Selch's creation of the Garlemald empire, emphasizing how hard and sad it was for him to build and enact Imperialism for the sake of the those he loved.

We get an entire short story saying just that. Do you genuinely believe that the scene where we are informed of his dead son, who died to the Sundered's "fraility," wasn't the writers "emphasizing how hard and sad it was for him to build and enact imperialism for the sake of the those he loved." Hell the whole Nier side plot is exactly that as well! Nothing but I do what I do for the ones I love to which characters give sad faces to.

I would also make a distinction between "the reasons for [x] are sympathetic" and "most people would do [x] if they were in the same position" - and "choosing to do [x] is right and necessary." The story takes the former approach with Emet and Elidibus, while still portrayed their actions as wrong and needing to be stopped, that people have the right to protest against and stop them. It takes the latter with Venat – at least up until the Omega quests. A mass-murderer I can easily find to be "sympathetic," but you're going to have a hell of a time selling me on "they were right."

And yet the game did just that by giving a voiced character the opportunity to say they would do the exact same thing as Emet if they were in his shoes.