LIVE Letter Regarding DRG & AST Postponed Reworks

[Doc_Seraph]

you mean to how they actually summon now instead of a warlock? *shrug*

Rydia had black magic and summons kupo <3 hehe *shrugs*

[Kranel_San]

I don't mind the Summoner changes. Most people I have talked to think it is a real summoner now and enjoy it, regardless of how simple it is regarded.

The removal of Kaiten just leaves us to mash the same button too frequently though. The monk changes look good but I still haven't wrapped my head around them and everyone I have talked to about them has said the same thing. Monk was never that popular of a job and the changes have pushed away some of the people who actually knew how to play it.

Exactly. Out of all the recent reworks and job changes I have seen, only the summoner rework is what I really like. Others not so much...

[Deceptus]

DRG is fine and doesn't need any changes. It's perfect. The concerns people have are that it will be the opposite of perfect after the changes, because that happened to some other jobs.

It absolutely does have some things that could easily be tightened up.

There's zero functional reason for High Jump and Mirage Dive to be a separate button. This is something that SE needs to do on more than one job. If one button is required to unlock a 2nd ability the 2nd ability should just be an icon change.

Wheeling Thrust and Fang & Claw are no longer able to be screwed up, they should be a single button.

Dragon Sight and Battle Litany are both 2m CD's and you're generally not using one without the other. Could easily apply Battle Litany when a character uses Dragon Sight.

There's not real reason why Doom Strike shouldn't apply "Battle Surge" instead of Sonic Thrust. Having to wait until lvl 62 to get the 2nd portion of their aoe combo is also pretty bad (Monk, Sam, and Reaper get theirs at 45, Ninja at 52).

So no, they're far from "perfect" They suffer button bloat like a lot of DPS do currently.

[Silhart]

snip

I've been giving them a chance since ShB, but it's hard to share your optimism when SE continues to cut away what little thought the jobs have left. To name a few non-Kaiten examples:
- DNC Flourish procs now exist independently, removing the need to plan ahead to prevent drifting Flourish & overwriting procs.
- NIN Doton opener got axed
- We lost more cones for circle AoEs
And this is all stuff that happened in 6.1. If I talk about Monk losing nearly all of their positionals, the state of healers since ShB, or -shudders- Summoner, I think I'm just going to make myself sad. These trends are worrying, and there's nothing to indicate that this DRG rework will be anything but a net loss for the job. But hey, if they can convince me that removing buttons will somehow add depth to DRG's gameplay, then I'll wait and see. I doubt it, though.

Correct the job is fine right now but there is functionally nothing that can be done to it in the future, the job is far too static and far too rigid, something has to give and it’s going to give soon, a job can’t stay in its current form forever no matter how much you like it

Give me a break. Why are people acting as if removing buttons and giving them back years later is any better than, you know, not touching the god damn buttons in the first place? Let's stop pretending we're actually gaining anything here.

If this is how expansions are going to be handled going forward, then I'd rather get no changes at all. That is much preferrable to pruning my job and forcing me to wait until next expansion for what will ultimately be another generic damage oGCD/combo extension. Awesome, glad I waited two whole years for something I already had. Give me a fucking break, SE. I've seen it in WoW; it's not going to work here.

[angienessyo]

what is wrong with having one job that hase a few more buttons? arent there 18 others with less buttons? you dont even have to make another character for it. i mean this game would be perfect for having jobs for all kind of playstyles

DRG wouldn't really lose anything by losing or combining a few buttons, it's currently pretty clunky to play on controller. I play NIN which has its own issues getting everything to fit after they split raiju into 2 buttons and gave us a huiton button. All my actual skills fit, but not all the role skills. I usually have to swap out hellfrog for one of them in a raid environment. DRG is in a similar boat where the actual skills will fit but I don't have room for role stuff. But at least with NIN you're mostly pressing 3 buttons until your burst window, unlike DRG. There's definitely a limit to how many buttons a job can have while still being comfortable to play on controller.

[Jeeqbit]

Correct the job is fine right now but there is functionally nothing that can be done to it in the future

You could have said that in Shadowbringers, but SE still found some new animation upgrades for it.

the only thing I wouldn't miss is the extra charge of Life Surge we got in EW.

I don't mind that because it challenges me to remember to use it on the highest potency weaponskill which isn't always available.

There's zero functional reason for High Jump and Mirage Dive to be a separate button. This is something that SE needs to do on more than one job. If one button is required to unlock a 2nd ability the 2nd ability should just be an icon change.

I didn't really like the change but it took some getting used to that it had ability combos.

Wheeling Thrust and Fang & Claw are no longer able to be screwed up, they should be a single buggon.

Easy to macro, but I keep them separate for visibility so I get the positionals right. They could be merged, but it returns us to the argument of making combos work like pvp where each part of the rotation is merged into a single button.

Dragon Sight and Battle Litany are both 2m CD's and you're generally not using one without the other. Could easily apply Battle Litany when a character uses Dragon Sight.

There are a lot of these to press at once, true and it doesn't help that they aligned buffs like these even more.

[Supersnow845]

I've been giving them a chance since ShB, but it's hard to share your optimism when SE continues to cut away what little thought the jobs have left. To name a few non-Kaiten examples:
- DNC Flourish procs now exist independently, removing the need to plan ahead to prevent drifting Flourish & overwriting procs.
- NIN Doton opener got axed
- We lost more cones for circle AoEs
And this is all stuff that happened in 6.1. If I talk about Monk losing nearly all of their positionals, the state of healers since ShB, or -shudders- Summoner, I think I'm just going to make myself sad. These trends are worrying, and there's nothing to indicate that this DRG rework will be anything but a net loss for the job. But hey, if they can convince me that removing buttons will somehow add depth to DRG's gameplay, then I'll wait and see. I doubt it, though.


Give me a break. Why are people acting as if removing buttons and giving them back years later is any better than, you know, not touching the god damn buttons in the first place? Let's stop pretending we're actually gaining anything here.

If this is how expansions are going to be handled going forward, then I'd rather get no changes at all. That is much preferrable to pruning my job and forcing me to wait until next expansion for what will ultimately be another generic damage oGCD/combo extension. Awesome, glad I waited two whole years for something I already had. Give me a fucking break, SE. I've seen it in WoW; it's not going to work here.

Because you aren’t the only person who square is designing for, they need to attract more people to the job in the future and leaving every job in a static “well we can’t change anything so you get potency upgrades every expansion” is the absolute death keel for design creativity

In every single one of these threads nobody has ever explained to me a viable expansion to DRG’s combo they could put in that wouldn’t break the job, it’s always just “the jobs fine”, yes but fine isn’t going to cut the mustard because it has to be expanded upon every expansion, I’d rather a full rework than 10 years of potency upgrades or 10 years of “delete stardiver because it doesn’t fit, next expansion out stardiver by a different name back in” which is about the only options DRG has left right now

[Supersnow845]

You could have said that in Shadowbringers, but SE still found some new animation upgrades for it.

And that’s kinda my point, EW didn’t really do anything with DRG, it was already close to what it currently is in ShB we just got some potency tweaks around the edge and a functionally pointless gauge extension

[Jeeqbit]

And that’s kinda my point, EW didn’t really do anything with DRG, it was already close to what it currently is in ShB we just got some potency tweaks around the edge and a functionally pointless gauge extension

You could make this argument with a lot of jobs though. White Mage, for example, is no longer a Stone-mage but a Glare-mage. Is there a functional difference there? No, but the name, the icon and the animation are different.

[Supersnow845]

You could make this argument with a lot of jobs though. White Mage, for example, is no longer a Stone-mage but a Glare-mage. Is there a functional difference there? No, but the name, the icon and the animation are different.

Correct and that’s also a problem, almost all the jobs are stagnating with age, I’d rather they redesign them even if they make them more simple than deal with stagnant jobs for however much longer the game lasts for