To Tanks Who only pull One Mob at a Time......

[LittleImp]

Ok this is rich. Let's take it point by point. "Giving the enemy the advantage"...you mean like pulling them before the tank is ready for them putting the enemy at an advantage? OK

And oddly enough MPK isn't the same as YPYT because the tank isn't the one pulling or sending said mobs anywhere. Its the other person pulling and bringing mobs to the tank. So by that logic the tank isn't at fault here.

I am personally aware of cases where people have received warnings, and even 3 day bans for YPYT. You pretty much have to openly admit to what you are doing in chat to establish motive, but it is definitely seen as MPK in the eyes of the GMs.


Motive is important. YPYT seeks to intentionally undermine the efficacy of the entire party for 'revenge' against someone you feel has 'overstepped'. Pulling as a DPS is because someone wants the party to clear faster and be more efficient. One of these things is inherently malicious, the other is not.

[SturmChurro]

I am personally aware of cases where people have received warnings, and even 3 day bans for YPYT. You pretty much have to openly admit to what you are doing in chat to establish motive, but it is definitely seen as MPK in the eyes of the GMs.


Motive is important. YPYT seeks to intentionally undermine the efficacy of the entire party for 'revenge' against someone you feel has 'overstepped'. Pulling as a DPS is because someone wants the party to clear faster and be more efficient. One of these things is inherently malicious, the other is not.

Yeah, same thing with people who state in chat they will not heal a tank who pulls too much or something along those lines. It's griefing. Even if you don't admit to it, if a GM sees this happening often, they'd probably also put two and two together and give you a warning or strike for griefing.

[Wanzzo]

Yeah, same thing with people who state in chat they will not heal a tank who pulls too much or something along those lines. It's griefing. Even if you don't admit to it, if a GM sees this happening often, they'd probably also put two and two together and give you a warning or strike for griefing.

Oh, that's really awful when we see a healer that not heal dpses that aggro mobs instead of leaving the tanker do it. Or a tanker that is not with a good gear or not using their cooldowns properly...
I confess, I had some these thoughts as a healer in some moments in my past, but I never let anyone dies intentionaly. Now, older, I don't even care about such stuff xD I just keep people alive no matter what happens (this is just a game, not a competition to see who do their role more perfectly and people are different).

I never knew that there are rules for these behaviours and yes, we must keep track of them and REPORT if we see injustice especially against the new player, which is more like the "weak ring in the chain" of the party (but not only).

[SturmChurro]

Oh, that's really awful when we see a healer that not heal dpses that pools mobs instead of leaving the tanker do it. Or a tanker that is not with a good gear or not using their cooldowns properly...
I confess, I had some these thoughts as a healer in some moments in my past, but I never let anyone dies intentionaly. Now, older, I don't even care about such stuff xD I just keep people alive no matter what happens (this is just a game, not a competition to see who do their role more perfectly and people are different).

I never knew that there are rules for these behaviours and yes, we must keep track of them and REPORT if we see injustice especially against the new player, which is more like the "weak ring in the chain" of the party (but not only).

I don't care as much as I used to either. My opinions are vastly different than when I first started playing this game. Then again, people still get mad about me trying to prioritize dps uptime on my white mage.. Yes, to keeping track of what behaviors are okay, but it would take a lot for me to actually report someone in-game. A lot of behaviors I do not believe are worth a person losing their account over. See, in this game, you pretty much have about three chances. A warning, and three strikes, as far as I am aware. It doesn't matter the severity of the action, if you get three strikes, you are done.

...

I got a warning for "grief tactics" earlier this year, and I have literally no idea why. Petty or not, agree with the GMs judgement or not, people WILL report for it. If a player still insists on doing this, they are risking their account. At best, I would say the solution is to kick the player if you think they are pulling too much, or leave. Granted, me leaving too often was something people speculated may have been a reason why I got a warning..

[Arazehl]

I get tired of hearing "the majority rules" concept. Sounds like you are forcing the one other to play in a way that may not be comfortable for them. You lose 5 mins of completion time if the pace is set at a moderate run in a HW dungeon. Compared to the time raising them from the dead or them having to respawn and run back.

If the healer is new, then it's just too bad, so sad? The majority concept is a poor and selfish excuse. Expecting a sprout to just adapt and get over it. This greed before need mentality can make a dungeon run very unpleasant for those who are trying to progress in skill and knowledge of their roles. Remember you were there in their shoes at some point too.

And I agree communication is key.

[NekoMataMata]

I get tired of hearing "the majority rules" concept. Sounds like you are forcing the one other to play in a way that may not be comfortable for them. You lose 5 mins of completion time if the pace is set at a moderate run in a HW dungeon. Compared to the time raising them from the dead or them having to respawn and run back.

If the healer is new, then it's just too bad, so sad? The majority concept is a poor and selfish excuse. Expecting a sprout to just adapt and get over it. This greed before need mentality can make a dungeon run very unpleasant for those who are trying to progress in skill and knowledge of their roles. Remember you were there in their shoes at some point too.

And I agree communication is key.

Even if we disregard the majority rules concept(because let's face it, we could sit there and go through the forums, reddit, twitter and even ask in-game if you want, but the results would likely never be something anyone would accept as a "majority" view, so this is all amounting to just she said, he said), it still makes logical sense that level 50-60+ dungeons should be done wall to wall by default.

While we don't have trust support for SB msq yet, that's the only area that's lacking. I know that you can wall to wall with a little difficulty with the later trusts, although due to their lack of using aoes it's a bit slow. Trusts were clearly meant for people who wanted to take it slow, who wanted to take their time exploring the dungeon to the fullest.

Meanwhile people can choose to do dungeons however they'd like with their friends, and DF dungeons are set to wall to wall by default outside of ARR/HW. This makes perfect sense, it's the way the most people will be happy.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I am personally aware of cases where people have received warnings, and even 3 day bans for YPYT. You pretty much have to openly admit to what you are doing in chat to establish motive, but it is definitely seen as MPK in the eyes of the GMs.


Motive is important. YPYT seeks to intentionally undermine the efficacy of the entire party for 'revenge' against someone you feel has 'overstepped'. Pulling as a DPS is because someone wants the party to clear faster and be more efficient. One of these things is inherently malicious, the other is not.

In cases like those I don't to much care about a GMs judgment. You can't exactly claim YPYT just seeks to undermine a group when it could just be people who rather stick to their own pace which isn't malicious at at. GMs punishing that is basically them saying "were gonna punish you because you didn't give in to being forced to do more than you may be comfy with" and thats backwards.

Also can't claim DPS pulling are doing it for the party as how exactly do we know this? I've only ever seen 1 dps pull ahead while me and the other dps focus on what the tank actually pulled. In that vein to me it seems like that dps is only concerned with clearing fast for themselves as they often dip from dungeons right away when it's finished without saying a word.

It's amazing how bent out of shape folks get if they have to spend just a few extra minutes doing something. Reporting for this this petty is ridiculous ESPECIALLY when "you NEVER encounter it if you never pull ahead ". It's LITERALLY an issue you can avoid

[Bobby66]

In cases like those I don't to much care about a GMs judgment. You can't exactly claim YPYT just seeks to undermine a group when it could just be people who rather stick to their own pace which isn't malicious at at. GMs punishing that is basically them saying "were gonna punish you because you didn't give in to being forced to do more than you may be comfy with" and thats backwards.

Also can't claim DPS pulling are doing it for the party as how exactly do we know this? I've only ever seen 1 dps pull ahead while me and the other dps focus on what the tank actually pulled. In that vein to me it seems like that dps is only concerned with clearing fast for themselves as they often dip from dungeons right away when it's finished without saying a word.

It's amazing how bent out of shape folks get if they have to spend just a few extra minutes doing something. Reporting for this this petty is ridiculous ESPECIALLY when "you NEVER encounter it if you never pull ahead ". It's LITERALLY an issue you can avoid

Same could be said if you just pull everything, it is literally an issue that you can avoid.

People cannot pull for you if nothing left to pull.