Kaiten

[guigaxw]

I am a SAM player too and I don't like the Kaiten removal.
We already have a billion of these threads tho we don't need more to clutter the forum this should've just been another comment in one of the other threads not a thread in and of itself.
Yoshi-P also said that we should give it a chance but keep giving feedback which we have now what remains is wait until the next major patch where Job reworks etc normally happens.
Making another thread about it isn't going to do anything.

PvP is also different because players are on the receiving end, I think generally speaking most will agree that being on the receiving end in PvP feels worse and more urgent than a Job missing a button in PvE but still performing well.



Because Job changes are covered in part 2 of Live Letters...
They only mentioned that AST and DRG are having their reworks delayed *BECAUSE OF THE NEGATIVE RESPONSE TO SAM*.

Edit: I know that this is the FFXIV forum, but I wish we could be a tad bit more organized and not clutter it with needless threads that like I said should just be a comment in another thread.
In reality it's counter-productive and makes it more difficult to collect feedback in a cohesive manner and there are also other Jobs that deserve to be heard too.
It's probably not fun if you play another Job and want to be heard but then the forum gets a billion SAM threads about the same thing.

Hi to answer you i think it's better to make a lot of threads because it will be easier to prove them that a majority of the community disagree this changes, we are showing them that they need to listen to the players and giving us silent is definetely not an answer. So i'll continue to comment or post threads( but not too much i understand there might be other problems) about the sam. I hope SE will listen to us, it's never too late and it's okay to make mistakes.

[LeonKeyh]

This is the translation synopsis I saw

I don't speak japanese in the slightest so have no idea whose is more accurate.

Interesting, that's a good find. All 3 of the people who I was watching stream the Live Letter said "they were postponed because they were basically not finished because it was extensive."

This definitely seems to hint at the delay being because of poor feedback, though I'm wondering how much of that is wishful thinking.

[RyuuZero]

People actually want Kaiten back?



/s

uh yes, me because I liked being able to boost my burst through Good Resource Management instead of spamming Filler Abilities like braindead and having to sit on 20 Kenki.. which is a Problem I never had since 2017
they could've at least tune down the Kenki Cost of Shinten and Kyuten.. which may worsen the Spam but at least I don't have sit on 20 Kenki like it is now.. I feel so teased! Like: "Oh Look! 20 Kenki! Remember what you could do with those before 6.1!? But guess what! Not anymore! Now do a Hakaze and spam Shinten like a Monkey you Bongo!"

[CelestiCer]

Personally I don't care for civility other then following some guidelines ( apparently ) like not addressing trolls. Waiting with patience we do not have for 4 months, with the reason of staying respectful when SE clearly doesn't respect the player-base at all sounds quite asinine. You look at healers and they will say " Look at what being polite and waiting patiently got them ", and we're being told to politely wait? I just read as " just shut up ", which with all do respect I have a choice to not do so, and I will choose to not.

They'll get the feedback they supposedly yearningly asked for (ha!), worded as civil as possible.
Rather they willfully ignore that feedback is up to them. Voiced it we have, voicing it we will.

[RyuuZero]

They'll get the feedback they supposedly yearningly asked for (ha!), worded as civil as possible.
Rather they willfully ignore that feedback is up to them. Voiced it we have, voicing it we will.

well.. we may need to have a more direct approach, talk with Japanese Player who are willing to translate our plea, maybe we have to design a billboard, again it grabbed everyone's attention, we gave enough input on ourside, but slowly I have the Feeling that it's mid 2000s to 2010 Square all over again.. and do you know what they released in that Time? FFXIII and FFXIV1.0, let us never forget that.

[ItsUrBoi]

The easiest of changes would be just to bring back Kaiten as it was before, but instead of making your next Iaijutsu 50% stronger, just make it guarantee a critical hit instead, while buffing shinten a little bit to balance the kenki cost of Kaiten.

As for button bloat, Ikishouten could turn into Ogi Namikiri which now turns into Kaeshi Namikiri anyway.
Shoha I is replaced by Shoha 2 with a buffed up potency. I don't think anyone would mind not having a single target Shoha, but instead just one Shoha for both 1 target and for AoE.

If the button bloat is real, which I don't think it is, you can even combine Guren and Senei into one, by asking the community which animation is better in a google forms or something. Or just pick one and buff it up for single target while adjusting its AoE fall off.

[RyuuZero]

The easiest of changes would be just to bring back Kaiten as it was before, but instead of making your next Iaijutsu 50% stronger, just make it guarantee a critical hit instead, while buffing shinten a little bit to balance the kenki cost of Kaiten.

As for button bloat, Ikishouten could turn into Ogi Namikiri which now turns into Kaeshi Namikiri anyway.
Shoha I is replaced by Shoha 2 with a buffed up potency. I don't think anyone would mind not having a single target Shoha, but instead just one Shoha for both 1 target and for AoE.

If the button bloat is real, which I don't think it is, you can even combine Guren and Senei into one, by asking the community which animation is better in a google forms or something. Or just pick one and buff it up for single target while adjusting its AoE fall off.

*sigh* if you combine Shoha 1 with Shoha 2 and combine Senei with Guren you gonna lose control on what do you wanna do! Shoha 1 and Senei are for Single Target, Shoha 2 and Guren are for AoE simple as that, Kaiten also made all Weapon Skills hit 50% harder, not just Iaijutsu^^ my Idea for a Change on Kaiten was that they can keep the auto-crits on Midare and Ogi, but that Kaiten makes the next Weapon-skill do Direct Hit, thus rewarding Kenki Management with a Guaranteed Direct Crit.

[Mortex]

well.. we may need to have a more direct approach, talk with Japanese Player who are willing to translate our plea, maybe we have to design a billboard, again it grabbed everyone's attention, we gave enough input on ourside, but slowly I have the Feeling that it's mid 2000s to 2010 Square all over again.. and do you know what they released in that Time? FFXIII and FFXIV1.0, let us never forget that.

The Japanese player base did verbal murder on them after they didn’t address samurai at the early stages of pandemonium savage. I don’t wanna know how they reacted too this kind of treatment.

[xAFROx]

*sigh* if you combine Shoha 1 with Shoha 2 and combine Senei with Guren you gonna lose control on what do you wanna do! Shoha 1 and Senei are for Single Target, Shoha 2 and Guren are for AoE simple as that, Kaiten also made all Weapon Skills hit 50% harder, not just Iaijutsu^^ my Idea for a Change on Kaiten was that they can keep the auto-crits on Midare and Ogi, but that Kaiten makes the next Weapon-skill do Direct Hit, thus rewarding Kenki Management with a Guaranteed Direct Crit.

And follow WAR even more closely by making an entire stat line pointless for melding? I guess we should have all focused on Determination all along.

Senei and Guren can be cleaned up by overlapping the button with Shinten and Kyuten just as easily.

Shoha 1 and 2 don't need to exist at the same time unless meditation gets changed to be more interactive.

Ogi should have always been something that changes over Ikishoten since that's the specific trigger for it.

If not that, then maybe they could do some weird overlap onto the iaijutsu button in a similar vein to WARs Infuriate changing fell cleave and decimate, but I think the better change for that would be to apply that sort of interaction to shinten/kyuten

[LeonKeyh]

And follow WAR even more closely by making an entire stat line pointless for melding? I guess we should have all focused on Determination all along.

Senei and Guren can be cleaned up by overlapping the button with Shinten and Kyuten just as easily.

Shoha 1 and 2 don't need to exist at the same time unless meditation gets changed to be more interactive.

Ogi should have always been something that changes over Ikishoten since that's the specific trigger for it.

If not that, then maybe they could do some weird overlap onto the iaijutsu button in a similar vein to WARs Infuriate changing fell cleave and decimate, but I think the better change for that would be to apply that sort of interaction to shinten/kyuten

There are definitely a ton of better things that they could have done and don't listen to Ryuu's ridiculous stance on needing separate AE/single target abilities that do the same thing. Here's what they should have done:



Have Shoha upgrade to Shoha II with a high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Combine Shinten and Kyuten into 1 ability with high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Have Tsubame replace Iaijutsu after using Iaijutsu

Combine Guren and Senei into a single attack with high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Combine Gyoten and Yaten into an ability similar to Icarus/Thunderclap that just takes you to a target

Have Ogi Namakiri replace Ikishoten


Easy 6-7 abilities cleared off the hotbars with NO change to how the job plays.