Kaiten

[RyuuZero]

SE's excuse was - Button Bloat. Let us not forget that ever. Thus, plenty players bargain suggest logical alternative Button Bloat Solutions over Kaiten Removal.

There aren't any mechanics in FFXIV that requires that much precise damage control targeting. There isn't a reflect in this game that's that detrimental. There's The Tower at Paradigm's bosses " Hansel & Gretel ", with a knocback but they need to be pulled apart anyways. There is no hitting the wrong target and get reflected... Instant Death, or Bleed/Slow/Silence/Sleep/Frost/Burn/EmotionalDamage.

Heck, SE already neglects control with Ogi Namikiri. There's no choice it is AoE rather you like it or not. And Tenka Goken is a fart circle we have less Aim with it then a Cone. It just doesn't matter until they introduce mechanics where it does.

And until they do? The solutions players suggested are valid.
Shoha I + II fused. 1st target hit with Shoha I potency, Cone fall off damage of Shoha II.
Senei+Guren fused. 1st target hit with Senei potency, Line fall off damage of Guren.
Next to Ikishoten turning into Ogi Namikiri, these fused skills solve their supposedly poor excuse of Button Bloat issue more logically? then their 6.1 Kaitenremoval.

Those player solutions aren't valid, if we turn all those skills into AoE, the whole Resources turn into AoE Resources and step closer into meaninglessness, which is the Problem that Kenki has right Now, it isn't the Damage Boosting Resource it used to be. Kenki Now is just for Filler Attacks and sit on 20 Kenki for the lols. I already shared my Ikishoten into Ogi Macro, but fine if ya'all will bring up how Ikishoten should turn into Ogi Namikiri, let me share my Double Slice Buster Macro with you again:
/macroicon Ikishoten
/ac Ikishoten
/ac Ogi Namikiri
you have to press the button 3 times for everything, I wrote this stuff months ago (!!) and please do not cry about "but I do not want a Macro!!", where I have to say either the macro or cry about it for at least 2 years
+ didn't we already dismiss the Button Bloat Arguement aswell and rather prefer a roll back of Samurai to 6.08? but I digress.. a Better Idea to address the "Button Bloat" would be to turn Hakaze into Shoha 1 and Fuko into Shoha 2 (because Hakaze is Single Target and Shoha 1 is Single Target and Fuko is AoE and so is Mumyo Shoha) but in my player experience then we may step Closer to be a Dragoon with a Katana...

[CelestiCer]

snip

They are, because they solve the problem Square made as an excuse, the so called " Button Bloat " issue.

Let me be clear, I don't have a Button Bloat Issue nor do I think there is one for SAM. They could add 3 more skills I would still not have a Button Bloat issue and I don't even use an MMO mouse nor Macro's. There are SAM controller players who make fun of others who say there's a Button Bloat problem for SAM.

That being said, it's Square's statement, their Excuse = Button Bloat. So we give Button Bloat solutions. Square or any company is not going to state to us " just use Macro's ". You can do a self-made-bandage-solution if its a probelm, but it then by design is just bad to have players need to do that.

There's a reason why so many players/streamers/youtubers stated the following solutions

• Shoha I + II fused as 1 skill/button
• Ikishoten + Ogi Namikiri button fused
• Senei + Guren fused as 1 skill/button

Cause they make sense, it solves their imaginary excuse of a problem better then Kaiten removal.

As for resources, Kaiten buffed Midare and Higanbana making our resource not just AoE and not just meaningless. And heck these Valid solutions make room for skills that could make Meditation stacks and Kenki more interactive vs ripping Kaiten away and leaving us with a Shinten Gauge now! then I will take all of these valid solutions and Kaiten over some darn Kyuten/Shinten Gauge yes if we're talking meaningless.

[RyuuZero]

They are, because they solve the problem Square made as an excuse, the so called " Button Bloat " issue.

Let me be clear, I don't have a Button Bloat Issue nor do I think there is one for SAM. They could add 3 more skills I would still not have a Button Bloat issue and I don't even use an MMO mouse nor Macro's. There are SAM controller players who make fun of others who say there's a Button Bloat problem for SAM.

That being said, it's Square's statement, their Excuse = Button Bloat. So we give Button Bloat solutions. Square or any company is not going to state to us " just use Macro's ". You can do a self-made-bandage-solution if its a probelm, but it then by design is just bad to have players need to do that.

There's a reason why so many players/streamers/youtubers stated the following solutions

• Shoha I + II fused as 1 skill/button
• Ikishoten + Ogi Namikiri button fused
• Senei + Guren fused as 1 skill/button

Cause they make sense, it solves their imaginary excuse of a problem better then Kaiten removal.

As for resources, Kaiten buffed Midare and Higanbana making our resource not just AoE and not just meaningless. And heck these Valid solutions make room for skills that could make Meditation stacks and Kenki more interactive vs ripping Kaiten away and leaving us with a Shinten Gauge now! then I will take all of these valid solutions and Kaiten over some darn Kyuten/Shinten Gauge yes if we're talking meaningless.

Am I seriously the only one who sees the Problem when merging those Skills together? It would religate the entire resource to a single situation! and that's not what Samurai do.. it is what Dragoons is all about
Shoha + Mumyo Shoha = Geirskogul
Senei + Guren = Nastrond
Samurai prepare for Battle, Dragoons jump in and wreak havoc.

[LeonKeyh]

Am I seriously the only one who sees the Problem when merging those Skills together? It would religate the entire resource to a single situation! and that's not what Samurai do.. it is what Dragoons is all about
Shoha + Mumyo Shoha = Geirskogul
Senei + Guren = Nastrond
Samurai prepare for Battle, Dragoons jump in and wreak havoc.

YES. You've finally realized you're the only one that has a problem with merging redundant skills lol. Nearly _EVERY_ other job has skills like the ones that we're describing (used in both single and multi-target situations). Let's go down the list (Just going to name the first one that comes to mind for brevity, but most of these jobs have multiples):

Paladin: Confiteor
Warrior: Primal Rend
Dark Knight: Shadowbringer
Gunbreaker: Double Down

White Mage: Assize
Scholar: First one without one!
Astrologian: Earthly Star
Sage: Phlegma

Monk: Rising Phoenix
Dragoon: Dragon Fire Dive
Ninja: Phantom Kamaitachi
Samurai: Ogi Namikiri
Reaper: Communio

Bard: Apex/Blast Arrow
Machinist: Chainsaw
Dancer: Technical Finish

Black Mage: Foul
Summoner: Deathflare
Red Mage: Combo finishers


There is NO reason to have AE AND single target versions that are exactly the same. It's just having buttons for the sake of having buttons.

Like the buff timer on the party list. ? I mean let’s ban people using third party tools for the most simple of things. I’m gonna bet they gonna implement that in near time, because it should be there since ages.

Think about the irony player helping themselves with band aids, getting a ban and some time later square implements the features they got a ban for. Top class meme

They were forced into it. These streamers have had these tools for how long and never got banned. The problem was 5chan was angry at the DSR race and decided to mass report the streamers. If you have rules, someone breaks those rules, and someone else reports the person breaking those rules, you HAVE to do something about it, otherwise those rules mean nothing. This is the "downside" of the blanket "no third party tools" rule.

I think they could do a MUCH better job at describing "Third Party Tools" (e.g. "An application that INTERACTS with the game controlling it or giving the player information that they wouldn't normally have."), but I understand why they don't want to "play lawyer" with the community.