Melee classes are sad in CC

[Gserpent]

I would love to ask the developers what makes them feel dragoon is so overpowered that it warrants or justifies the need for it to be the only melee that increases damage taken on itself during their burst and has the priveledge of having arguably the most telegraphed and avoidable LB of all melees. Im sorry but having "Horrid Roar" does not negate this glaring and unnecessary debuff unless you play nothing but Bronze players stupid enough to stack up for it. Its bad enough the job has no CC whatsoever. If dmg is literally the only thing it brings to the table then why nerf or otherwise hamper that as well?

It's a 10yd AOE that lasts 10 sec and provides the heaviest damage down in the game. It's enough to keep you safe for a given engagement. That said, I wouldn't shed any tears if they just removed the Life vuln up penalty and just nerfed Horrid Roar down to like 20% or something. It would be simpler to play and wouldn't really change DRG's balance in a meaningful way.

DRG doesn't get CC because it generally has the highest nova of any melee. Make friends with any class with reliable draw-in and dunk people.

[Bloodthrone]

Personally I wish SE would :
• Remove LB’s animation lock;
• Lower Communio’s cast time to at least 1s;
• Tie RPR's 10% damage buff to Death Warrant instead of Arcane Crest; (added edit)
• Put a 2s CD on Communio upon pressing LB so it doesn’t accidentally fire off;
• Add 2k damage to Grim Swathe, Lemure’s Slice as well as to Harvest Moon’s lower and top ends.

Not terrible ideas but I still think RPR would still lack burst speed I would still argue for Gallows and Gibbit to provide Immortal Sacrifice so we can stack faster for Plentiful Harvest.

- The animation would be nice to get rid of, but the issue is most players agree on is RPR getting CCed into the ground after Hysteria and it kind of warrants temporary CC immunity.

-Death Warrant I would like to see redesigned as a straight de-buff (or self-buff) that provides increased damage by 25%-30%.

-I would like to see Communio be an insta-cast, but I think a 1sec cast is acceptable.

-Grim Swathe doesn't feel like it needs a buff given its job is providing a de-buff and opens for Gallows and Gibbet, but I'm not against it either.

-As far as being trigger happy on Communio can be a problem, I'm ignorant to other RPR's on the matter because I'm set on firing it before I get CCed but if this will help, I'm all for it.

[Bloodthrone]

That's the issue I face most of the time when I talk with players that are attached to strict Job Roles.

Them : RPR is supposed to be a DPS!
Me : It kind of is but it also kind of plays like a tank.
Them : Then it's a TANK! Me no play TANK!
Me : Well, not really. It's still a DPS, but you just have tools to let you survive.
Them : Then RPR is DPS?!
Me : No, no, no. It's not any of those, PvP doesn't really have roles like that.
Them : Which role is RPR?!
Me : It's like a tanky, debuffer, DPS, that has ranged abilities, designed to jump in and out and build LB to spam.
Them : But RPR supposed to be DPS?!
Me :

Reaper is just reaper. Learn to tank, git gud at survival and how to choose your battles, then you can play it like a DPS.[/QUOTE]

I would argue the class design for RPR is somewhat poor though. They intend this class to play Tank and Dps at the same time and make both sides kind of mediocre so both sides work off each other which leads to a very tedious play style which most other classes don't go through. That's a problem in the long run and having a consistent play style would greatly improve the experience and make RPR less redundant.

[Sawamura]

Funny enough people play team battle as 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 5. Or complain def skill when there is no job strict in match.

[Gserpent]

I would argue the class design for RPR is somewhat poor though. They intend this class to play Tank and Dps at the same time and make both sides kind of mediocre so both sides work off each other which leads to a very tedious play style which most other classes don't go through. That's a problem in the long run and having a consistent play style would greatly improve the experience and make RPR less redundant.

RPR isn't mediocre, though. Its DPS is quite good for a tank, and it is *by far* the most durable melee. Giving your team a cure 3 every 20 sec is huge in teamfights. Death Warrant can result in large burst amounts when stacked properly and their LB is probably one of the top 3 in the entire game.

The class isn't playing against itself. It works very, very well. It's possible that you have more work to do on your knowledge of the class and how it fits into various scenarios, but that's not something SE can fix with a patch. All of your suggested changes would do nothing but make the class overpowered and turn it into the next BLM. The class is fine and quite strong - I think you just need more practice with it, and maybe less trying to force it to be a MNK or DRG and more playing it as it's designed to be.

[MonteCristo]

RPR isn't mediocre, though. Its DPS is quite good for a tank, and it is *by far* the most durable melee. Giving your team a cure 3 every 20 sec is huge in teamfights. Death Warrant can result in large burst amounts when stacked properly and their LB is probably one of the top 3 in the entire game.

The class isn't playing against itself. It works very, very well. It's possible that you have more work to do on your knowledge of the class and how it fits into various scenarios, but that's not something SE can fix with a patch. All of your suggested changes would do nothing but make the class overpowered and turn it into the next BLM. The class is fine and quite strong - I think you just need more practice with it, and maybe less trying to force it to be a MNK or DRG and more playing it as it's designed to be.

What do u say to all the players, reddit, discord, youtubers and tier lists that consistently rank it as the lowest grade melee dps currently. Including the higher skilled reapers who also agree? (I have receipts dont worry).

[ShinyChariot]

Not terrible ideas but I still think RPR would still lack burst speed I would still argue for Gallows and Gibbit to provide Immortal Sacrifice so we can stack faster for Plentiful Harvest.

It's fine now, but I'm not going to argue against a buff. So this suggestion is cool. I can see people who can't rack up enough assist/kills or use Soul Slice on cooldown to want an alternative method to generate stacks.

- The animation would be nice to get rid of, but the issue is most players agree on is RPR getting CCed into the ground after Hysteria and it kind of warrants temporary CC immunity.

It's not too bad now, you can bait CCs or read the situation to not get CCed, make sure you have full MP bar to recouperate, or time your guard during LB to absorb some, retreat and come back, not use it near too many people who can CC, make sure there are teammates that also shouldn't be CCed and try to strategically draw CCs away from them.

But if you are absolutely unable of doing any of those things, I don't think anyone's arguing against a CC immunity buff.

-Death Warrant I would like to see redesigned as a straight de-buff (or self-buff) that provides increased damage by 25%-30%.

That would be a nerf though, because Death warrant does 50% of compiled damage. and most of Reaper's kit is single target. So ???. Also, +25%, If I'm remembering correctly, is really powerful even compared to other jobs? For a job like reaper that makes the most of out quick in-out attacks, having more damage compressed into a shorter window of time with 50% compiled damage is very important for reaper. So I don't think this change makes sense.

-I would like to see Communio be an insta-cast, but I think a 1sec cast is acceptable.

I'd love an instacast Communio. Bring it on. I think it's fine, but for people that can't time their cast abilities to avoid being noticed and sniped, this would be a great change.

-Grim Swathe doesn't feel like it needs a buff given its job is providing a de-buff and opens for Gallows and Gibbet, but I'm not against it either.

I don't think anybody who likes reaper would be against a buff. Just buff everything. Everything.

-As far as being trigger happy on Communio can be a problem, I'm ignorant to other RPR's on the matter because I'm set on firing it before I get CCed but if this will help, I'm all for it.

Communio is ranged for a reason, teleport away after using bind, and use from a safe distance.

[ShinyChariot]

I would argue the class design for RPR is somewhat poor though. They intend this class to play Tank and Dps at the same time and make both sides kind of mediocre so both sides work off each other which leads to a very tedious play style which most other classes don't go through. That's a problem in the long run and having a consistent play style would greatly improve the experience and make RPR less redundant.

I understand how some can feel that it's poor because it's not very in your face in what the job is supposed to do for the typical player. I wouldn't agree that it's mediocre at both sides, because it isn't trying to be. It is it's own thing, I say it's a mutant Tank/DPS because it's confusing if I add in Debuffer/Harasser/Passive Healer/Ranged Caster on top of that. I don't believe redundant is the correct term for it because there isn't any job that does what it does, the way it does it, with all the little parts that it has. I also disagree it's tedious because it's very complicated and engaging, it requires more decision making, but if people feel and describe that as tedious, I won't tell them they're wrong. Some people will of course describe this job in such way for being uniquely what it is.

I would agree that it lacks consistency because it depends on your teammates like a handful of other jobs do. If your team skill level or your personal skill level, or general cooperation isn't up to par, each game isn't going to go the same way at all. Consistency isn't something each job must be guaranteed because then you can't have any jobs that are dependent on such a fickle factor as teamwork. With that argument, SCH doesn't have consistency, DNC doesn't have consistency. Both jobs, like RPR, have a high skill ceiling, and maybe excluding SCH, DNC and RPR are some of the worst jobs you can have in general in your team because they're usually at the bottom of DPS and Assists in the wrong hands because people want to have their cake and eat it too, do big dick DPS/be a job that isn't supposed to be big dick DPS.

Basically the more you try to sort reaper in a category, the more you'll find it confusing, so just throw all that and all the expectations out the window. You can take off those lens and see RPR is a fine job people just don't feel like playing properly.

How to play Reaper
1. Don't die
2. Survive CC
3. Heal yourself
4. Heal team by using barrier on CD

Below is what a RPR is supposed to look like. No deaths, lots of damage taken, lots of health healed. This is a casual Match btw, Rank is dead and tbh doesn't play much different either lol.

[ShinyChariot]

RPR isn't mediocre, though. Its DPS is quite good for a tank, and it is *by far* the most durable melee.

True and real.

If you don't know how to retreat without dying you might need to play something else. Teleport gives you movement speed and barrier should be back up during your retreat, not to mention you even might have a heavy debuff to use to keep people behind you while you run to the next potion. How are people dying on reaper? You should be chugging potions every 2 engagements.

Giving your team a cure 3 every 20 sec is huge in teamfights. Death Warrant can result in large burst amounts when stacked properly and their LB is probably one of the top 3 in the entire game.

This. People just don't know how to barrier and burst on one target. I have no idea how people are unable to do this.

And I mentioned barrier specifically because a lot of supposed reaper mains probably don't even know you meant the barrier when you said "cure 3". They'll look over their hot bar, see that it doesn't have an AoE heal, and tell you for the 10th time you don't get to have an opinion because you don't play it. Because apparently, playing it means you get to talk about it like you know it, which a lot of people don't seem to. Reaper is not that hard to understand for people with PvP brains, and you obviously do, I don't care if you didn't play it, because you're right.

The class isn't playing against itself. It works very, very well. It's possible that you have more work to do on your knowledge of the class and how it fits into various scenarios, but that's not something SE can fix with a patch. All of your suggested changes would do nothing but make the class overpowered and turn it into the next BLM. The class is fine and quite strong - I think you just need more practice with it, and maybe less trying to force it to be a MNK or DRG and more playing it as it's designed to be.

Man if they overpower reaper and any idiot gets to be "good" at it because they gave it potency and skill adjustments even a caveman could use, I'd...

...continue to dunk people on reaper because I still know how to play it properly. Thanks for the power-up.

Honestly it doesn't matter how many times they change or buff it, you can't fix a player's bad decisions, unawareness when it comes to the situation, or inability to not get killed. People that are good at a class have nothing to complain about. I was great at the first version of BLM and wondered what all the fuss was about.

Yoshi P said it himself.

"Having said this, my personal impression after countless Crystalline Conflict matches is that, in the hands of a skilled PvP combatant, the black mage has more than enough potential to excel in battle."
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ac1af14c1e3107

Some people just aren't skilled RPR players. Hopefully they know this is the case and just leave RPRs alone, besides some small adjustments. Honestly, people, go play something else, don't dumb down this job.

[Gserpent]

What do u say to all the players, reddit, discord, youtubers and tier lists that consistently rank it as the lowest grade melee dps currently. Including the higher skilled reapers who also agree? (I have receipts dont worry).

I'd say they don't know what they're talking about, frankly. And they're probably judging RPR by "omg low DPS" because they don't understand RPR's actual role and purpose.

Buffs and nerfs to classes will happen if they happen. I don't think RPR really needs any, and I think that if it does meaningfully more DPS than it does now, the class will be greatly overpowered because of all the other things it brings to the table... when played correctly. We'll have to wait for 6.2 to see how SE seems to want to handle things. They've mentioned they look at win rates and pick rates, but SCH is pretty near the bottom (especially in pick rates), yet it received no changes in 6.18 - which is good, because it doesn't need any.

So I'm on hopium here, taking it as a potential good sign that they can look beyond questionable data like pick rates and win rates to more objectively measure classes and determine whether or not they need changes. But it'll be 6.2 before we can really make a judgement call either way.

I think RPR could receive some QoL changes or minor buffs here or there and it not really affect anything. "Balanced" doesn't necessarily mean "will become unbalanced if anything changes." But we're talking like a small reduction to Communio cast time, or reducing LB cast animation to 0.80 sec from 1.00 sec, stuff like that. Certainly not the kinds of things people have been asking for in this thread, for the most part.