Melee classes are sad in CC

[Gserpent]

Range advantage is more of if Im not getting hit its free dmg
Yeah gap closer help melee get there but if range is dumping dmg first its free dmg
but I do agree a team of melee can stomp a team of range an this is due to the fact that the free dmg can't happen more prevalent
when everyone is coming for you
This is mitigate with CC and good team play but its not an easy fight
Also sage can turn themselves into a semi tank probably one of the few that can get away with it
I think it makes sense to have melee with sustain since they are in the fight more often

Yup, and that's why they have more sustain than ranged. Tanks generally have the strongest defensives and they typically get healing/leech on their 3rd combo hit (or on Atonement hits in PLD's case), but they generally only have *one* defensive button whereas melee often get two (or at least have better mobility so they're more likely to avoid damage.)

At low skill, I can see why people feel ranged have an unfair advantage. Low skill players are probably not fully comfortable with the playstyle of their class(es), don't fully understand the game mode or maps, and a team of low skill players is highly unlikely to initiate properly. On the other hand, low skill players are also unlikely to properly focus or swap targets and will probably never peel. I could easily see someone posting "ranged classes are sad in CC" because some enemy melee sat on them and their team didn't bother trying to peel for them.

Ultimately, it's just a skill issue. At high skill, there are no real "melee vs ranged" issues. There are some relatively minor class balance issues and I think there are some systemic issues with CC itself, but neither ranged nor melee are too strong/weak generally.

[gioroggia]

They are not that great, but then again you do love to overvalue bad kits and under value the good kits so its about what I'd expect from someone like you who sucks at pvp. Are you still casting fire on BLM and using oregeny thinking it heals you during bloodwhetting? Lawl.

I genuinely laughed at this because it is so true. This Gserpent dude has a standard reply to any balance complaint/suggestion that was not initiated by him: "the job is fine". It doesn't matter how great or awful the job is, he'll always say it's fine.

Now, about the topic at hand, I disagree with OP that melee jobs are falling behind. Full disclosure, the only melee job I play consistently is the Dragoon, and it is in a good spot overall if you use it the way it's supposed to be used. Ninja is better, and now Monk IMO is too. I'm not sure where SAM and RPR stand currently. I would still argue that SAM needs to have its LB reworked so that it becomes a consistent ability, not something that stomps new players while not having much impact against more experienced ones. I won't say anything about reaper because I know very little about it.

The fact is that melee jobs do have the tools to perform well. There are plenty of gap closers (for most of them) and the range of ranged jobs is not great - they still have to be close enough to be in danger, especially jobs who have close ranged abilities like MCH, SCH, WHM, etc.

The

[Gserpent]

I genuinely laughed at this because it is so true. This Gserpent dude has a standard reply to any balance complaint/suggestion that was not initiated by him: "the job is fine". It doesn't matter how great or awful the job is, he'll always say it's fine.

Now, about the topic at hand, I disagree with OP that melee jobs are falling behind. Full disclosure, the only melee job I play consistently is the Dragoon, and it is in a good spot overall if you use it the way it's supposed to be used. Ninja is better, and now Monk IMO is too. I'm not sure where SAM and RPR stand currently. I would still argue that SAM needs to have its LB reworked so that it becomes a consistent ability, not something that stomps new players while not having much impact against more experienced ones. I won't say anything about reaper because I know very little about it.

The fact is that melee jobs do have the tools to perform well. There are plenty of gap closers (for most of them) and the range of ranged jobs is not great - they still have to be close enough to be in danger, especially jobs who have close ranged abilities like MCH, SCH, WHM, etc.

The

That's because most classes are fine. Most balance whines originate from players who "main" one class or another and then run into something their class isn't suited to handling or something they haven't figured out how to deal with, and so they decide "well I'm great at the game, so the problem must be with the game and not me, so they need to nerf that thing that's beating me."

There aren't any classes that are just so overpowered that you can faceroll games. I'd probably say AST is the strongest class and does need some tuning in one way or another, but no matter how strong it is, you still can't carry a game with it. You still rely on teammates doing at least the bare minimum of what they're supposed to do.

[MonteCristo]

That's because most classes are fine. Most balance whines originate from players who "main" one class or another and then run into something their class isn't suited to handling or something they haven't figured out how to deal with, and so they decide "well I'm great at the game, so the problem must be with the game and not me, so they need to nerf that thing that's beating me."

There aren't any classes that are just so overpowered that you can faceroll games. I'd probably say AST is the strongest class and does need some tuning in one way or another, but no matter how strong it is, you still can't carry a game with it. You still rely on teammates doing at least the bare minimum of what they're supposed to do.

Like i said before...stop running your mouth go unlock reaper play it over 100 matches then we can have an intelligent conversation about it. Until then your opinion is just that. The analogy made earlier about a commentator having knowledge on a sport earlier in the thread means nothing and heres why. Who would anyone trust real knowledge from? Someone who's played the sport or someone spectating it without the blood sweat and tears put in?

[DerekAensland]

Just ignore him he clearly enjoys derailing conversations with his beliefs and there is nothing that will be said that will be able to change his opinions. Your best bet is to continue the threads intended purpose of discussing CC and melee and how is feels to have against you and to have your use for it. I sadly cant list much because I only pvp as DNC so I have CC baked into my normal kit outside a limit break.

[Gserpent]

Like i said before...stop running your mouth go unlock reaper play it over 100 matches then we can have an intelligent conversation about it. Until then your opinion is just that. The analogy made earlier about a commentator having knowledge on a sport earlier in the thread means nothing and heres why. Who would anyone trust real knowledge from? Someone who's played the sport or someone spectating it without the blood sweat and tears put in?

You don't have real knowledge, though. You're still in the "this killed me/I failed to do this thing so it's broken, waaah" phase. And you don't seem to be interested in actually leaving that.

Your knowledge of RPR is weak. You literally have less understanding of how to play and use RPR than the guy that hasn't even unlocked the class. That's where you're at right now. I strongly recommend you adjust your attitude and start asking people for advice, rather than declaring there to be problems with the class that don't actually exist. RPR is quite strong, but it does have a higher skill floor than some of the other classes.

[gioroggia]

That's because most classes are fine. Most balance whines originate from players who "main" one class or another and then run into something their class isn't suited to handling or something they haven't figured out how to deal with, and so they decide "well I'm great at the game, so the problem must be with the game and not me, so they need to nerf that thing that's beating me."

There aren't any classes that are just so overpowered that you can faceroll games. I'd probably say AST is the strongest class and does need some tuning in one way or another, but no matter how strong it is, you still can't carry a game with it. You still rely on teammates doing at least the bare minimum of what they're supposed to do.

Nope. You must have some cognitive issue.

[Gserpent]

Nope. You must have some cognitive issue.

Why? Because I learned how to actually play the game and understand it, rather than coming here to whine about it and demand fixes to compensate for my own inadequacies?

Funny thing - when you're actually good at the game, the game doesn't actually have that many significant balance problems. Most of the problems folks like you complain about are PEBKAC errors. That's not SE's job to deal with, that's a you problem.

[gioroggia]

Why? Because I learned how to actually play the game and understand it, rather than coming here to whine about it and demand fixes to compensate for my own inadequacies?

Funny thing - when you're actually good at the game, the game doesn't actually have that many significant balance problems. Most of the problems folks like you complain about are PEBKAC errors. That's not SE's job to deal with, that's a you problem.

It is so pitiful that you can't see the idiocy in what you write.

But it's also funny.

[SirShady]

Reaper player here! Reaper has to work HARD for every single kill they get. You really are more of a tank than a DPS because all you do is constant annoying (but not too dangerous) sustained damage. You really have to set up kills with your fear and be a huge backline distraction, otherwise people will just swat you away like a fly. It probably has the least amount of carry potential out of any melee job because you have to pray your teammates make good use of the constant distractions and CC you bring. Also, how annoying is it that your potentially HUGE AoE damage skill is also the one you want to spam off-cooldown to get your LB?

Gserpent, I appreciate you trying to stand up for the underdog, but outside of the uptime on their 2 second fear, they really don't bring anything to the table that another melee couldn't do better. I don't think RPR is terrible, but it definitely isn't the high-skillcap powerhouse you seem to think. It's just a high-skillcap house.