Healers need an overhaul

[Lilapop]

WE HAD ALL THAT AND SE REMOVED THEM ALL!!!

We had skills like Virus, Disable, Eye for an Eye, Slows, Heavys, Knockbacks, Shields, etc. and they all got removed. There is literally NOTHING left but Heals, the occasional mitigation effect and filler spam. Why do you think we're bored out of our minds? Because we lost everything that made Healers fun, not just a handful of DPS skills.

then my point is proven, having these WOULD solve the problem. my point isn't based on what the devs will do, since clearly they're happy with the way they're doing things atm. this is a viable alternative to dps in all but name, it's already been done, even.

[Silver-Strider]

then my point is proven, having these WOULD solve the problem. my point isn't based on what the devs will do, since clearly they're happy with the way they're doing things atm. this is a viable alternative to dps in all but name, it's already been done, even.

The thing is, the majority of those effects were attached to DPS spells
Stone 1, Stella and Miasma were all skills that did damage but also had a Heavy Effect.
Shadowflare was a ground based DoT that applied a Slow effect to every enemy inside the dome
Fluid Aura was a Knockback that did damage.

So there's nothing wrong with adding DPS spells either.

[Lilapop]

The thing is, the majority of those effects were attached to DPS spells
Stone 1, Stella and Miasma were all skills that did damage but also had a Heavy Effect.
Shadowflare was a ground based DoT that applied a Slow effect to every enemy inside the dome
Fluid Aura was a Knockback that did damage.

So there's nothing wrong with adding DPS spells either.

good lord its like the entire point i'm trying to make went over your head. the whole point was giving healers something other to do than healing that isn't being a dps in all but name. so i offered adding support spells, not more dps spells as an alternative solution.

[Silver-Strider]

good lord its like the entire point i'm trying to make went over your head. the whole point was giving healers something other to do than healing that isn't being a dps in all but name. so i offered adding support spells, not more dps spells as an alternative solution.

The 2 are not mutually exclusive though. You can have support skills that also add to your DPS rotation. That was a thing before. Miasma and Shadowflare were DPS skills that had added utility in the form of a Heavy and Slow effect on enemies and more can be done with that concept to expand on both options.

A DoT that puts a debuff on the target that heals party members as they damage the target in a similar vein as Bloodbath.
A Shield that reflects damage back on the attacker.
A Damage attack that lowers the target's damage.

There is literally no reason they can't be added to satisfy both sides of the argument. You get more options to support your group, we get more DPS skills to break the monotony of Filler spam.

[Lilapop]

The 2 are not mutually exclusive though. You can have support skills that also add to your DPS rotation. That was a thing before. Miasma and Shadowflare were DPS skills that had added utility in the form of a Heavy and Slow effect on enemies and more can be done with that concept to expand on both options.

A DoT that puts a debuff on the target that heals party members as they damage the target in a similar vein as Bloodbath.
A Shield that reflects damage back on the attacker.
A Damage attack that lowers the target's damage.

There is literally no reason they can't be added to satisfy both sides of the argument. You get more options to support your group, we get more DPS skills to break the monotony of Filler spam.

either i'm bad at explaining things (prob) or you just are trying to spin it so no matter what happens, healers always be dps in all but name no matter what, so i'll try a different way of explaining;

a healer's primary focus is to heal, it is in the name. since healing isn't required very much (which is where we agree), to break up the "filler spam" as you call it... instead of making it pretty much a dps with heals (hello summoners!), add buffs and debuffs. debuffs to the enemy in form of an aoe or single, buffs to the party in form of entire party or single target, shields, while already are a thing to prevent damage from even happening (pre-emptive healing, even), it's an an "attack" that lowers a target's damage, that is a textbook definition of a debuff, which falls under the[ B]support[/B] category, which is my whole point. make healers more support and less green dps. it both breaks up the "filler spam" and doesn't make it a green dps. which, ideally, should satisfy both parties. (the ones who want healer to not be a dps, and the healers who are bored with the mind-numbing simpleness of the "rotation".

considering my point here is to separate healer from being lumped in with the other dps, they are mutually exclusive, which is the whole point.

[Silver-Strider]

either i'm bad at explaining things (prob) or you just are trying to spin it so no matter what happens, healers always be dps in all but name no matter what, so i'll try a different way of explaining;

a healer's primary focus is to heal, it is in the name. since healing isn't required very much (which is where we agree), to break up the "filler spam" as you call it... instead of making it pretty much a dps with heals (hello summoners!), add buffs and debuffs. debuffs to the enemy in form of an aoe or single, buffs to the party in form of entire party or single target, shields, while already are a thing to prevent damage from even happening (pre-emptive healing, even), it's an an "attack" that lowers a target's damage, that is a textbook definition of a debuff, which falls under the[ B]support[/B] category, which is my whole point. make healers more support and less green dps. it both breaks up the "filler spam" and doesn't make it a green dps. which, ideally, should satisfy both parties. (the ones who want healer to not be a dps, and the healers who are bored with the mind-numbing simpleness of the "rotation".

considering my point here is to separate healer from being lumped in with the other dps, they are mutually exclusive, which is the whole point.

Adding nothing but support options doesn't change content to warrant needing those options. We'd find ourselves in the exact same scenario as our current oGCD healing being oversaturated and ignored. It wouldn't resolve the issue of Healing being underwhelming and boring.

[Lilapop]

Adding nothing but support options doesn't change content to warrant needing those options. We'd find ourselves in the exact same scenario as our current oGCD healing being oversaturated and ignored. It wouldn't resolve the issue of Healing being underwhelming and boring.

currently, the only "needed" thing in most content is damage. do enough damage and dps can run around like crazy without tanks and healers backing them up. which unfortunately seems near where we're at. i don't think there should be enough added to the point of oversaturation, like our current healing kits are, enough to be... support. a few buffs for your allies, a few debuffs for your enemies. keeps it a pure support class that specializes in support and healing. there should ideally be more to encounters than dps, otherwise, whats the point of having tanks and healers? "best support is a dead enemy", sure? but if that's the goal, you should play a dps that has a proper dps kit instead of playing a healer, and wondering both why healing is boring (we agree here), and why it's not another fully finished dps with a dps rotation? at that point, why not just remove healers all together and tack some a couple aoe/single target heals on our current dps classes, which seemingly would also meet what you're describing.

[Shurrikhan]

good lord its like the entire point i'm trying to make went over your head. the whole point was giving healers something other to do than healing that isn't being a dps in all but name. so i offered adding support spells, not more dps spells as an alternative solution.

Given that the amount of healing to already be done is almost always capped at less than the free (no potency cost) healing available in our kits, adding yet more free healing will only push existing heals out of use.

Think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

While Kardia is lazy design, not building on it will just leave it in that state. SCH at least tried to make the Fairy more than just passive regen whereas Kardia doesn't feel developed at all and needs more for it to feel distinct in its own right.

Also, this. There's a lot we could do to make Kardia more than just another lazy copy by which to "be SCH, but less clunky".