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  1. #1
    Player
    LeonKeyh's Avatar
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    Leon Keyh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ativan View Post
    It is only US politics because to some people our existence is political. But it is not. It's human rights.
    I'm genuinely curious, what human rights do you not have that everyone else has? What laws are you fighting to be implemented to give you those rights?
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player Midareyukki's Avatar
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    Harun Asubra
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonKeyh View Post
    I'm genuinely curious, what human rights do you not have that everyone else has? What laws are you fighting to be implemented to give you those rights?
    Have you not just heard what the Mississippi senator said? That trans people should be subjected to a firing squad? I'm not American and even I heard of that. It's not only laws giving rights, it's laws securing rights. Making sure that the laws that give rights aren't constantly violated by people who should know better.
    (5)

  3. 06-08-2022 11:05 PM
    Reason
    need more research

  4. #4
    Player
    LeonKeyh's Avatar
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    Leon Keyh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midareyukki View Post
    Have you not just heard what the Mississippi senator said? That trans people should be subjected to a firing squad? I'm not American and even I heard of that. It's not only laws giving rights, it's laws securing rights. Making sure that the laws that give rights aren't constantly violated by people who should know better.
    Good news is that the rights that Trans people already have, prevent them from being systematically murdered.

    Unfortunately, freedom of speech means that people are free to show they they're useless pieces of human trash, and the stupidity of American voters keep those pieces of trash in office.

    What SPECIFIC rights need to be secured? All I hear is "Someone might actually do something (that is against the rights that everyone has and would only happen in a dystopian novel because it would mean somehow redefining what a "human" is)."
    (7)

  5. #5
    Player Midareyukki's Avatar
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    Harun Asubra
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonKeyh View Post
    Good news is that the rights that Trans people already have, prevent them from being systematically murdered.

    Unfortunately, freedom of speech means that people are free to show they they're useless pieces of human trash, and the stupidity of American voters keep those pieces of trash in office.

    What SPECIFIC rights need to be secured? All I hear is "Someone might actually do something (that is against the rights that everyone has and would only happen in a dystopian novel because it would mean somehow redefining what a "human" is)."
    Meh. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequence. And let's be honest, as good and well-intentioned as the US's first amendment is, there are other amendments blocking parts of it, so it's really not as sacrosanct as it sounds.

    And I can't speak for the US. I don't know any of the laws there. I just know that there's quite a lot over there being repealled, and given your history with gun violence and overall people freely acting on their extreme racism and discrimination, I for sure wouldn't put it past the country to have some lacking rights or outright denial of rights. Only you can speak for the US, and I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but it is important that there are laws not only securing people's rights but also making sure they feel safe. Otherwise what's the point of, say, gay marriage if the moment a lesbian couple walks into civil registry they're gunned down?

    Hyperbole, I know, but a) It's the US. That's REALLY the image you guys project to the world, and b) I honestly wouldn't put it past some crazy people to do so. When you have crazy people in the civil offices denying to marry them under "freedom of speech", then y'all got a problem.

    Speaking on my corner of the world, yeah. We have laws in place for people to get married, but as far as I know none on gender changes or trans people in general. With a rather violent political party being too outspoken about violently murdering us. And guess which party is currently on the rise. And no, we don't have any 1st amendment securing freedom of speech, it's just implied in our constitution to be a thing. Hasn't stopped us from being a dictatorship before.

    Sometimes it's not about laws securing rights. It's about safeguards. About not being buldgeoned to death for using what some consider to be the "wrong bathroom".

    And isn't there a place in the US where they passed a bill saying they wanted to inspect underaged kids's privates before using a toilet? Like, again, it's not violation of rights... but it's definitely something that doesn't make anyone, straight people included, feel secure.

    Quick Edit: Laws help normalize things. Don't just think laws stop at "securing rights". There's more to it than that, and you know there is.
    (4)
    Last edited by Midareyukki; 06-08-2022 at 11:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Aelin_Ashryver's Avatar
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    Aelin Ashriver
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    Zodiark
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    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Midareyukki View Post
    Meh. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequence. And let's be honest, as good and well-intentioned as the US's first amendment is, there are other amendments blocking parts of it, so it's really not as sacrosanct as it sounds.
    Freedom of speech literally is freedom from consequence. The government cannot prosecute you for your speech, that's the whole point. Other private citizens can choose not to associate with you or your business, private business can refuse to serve you (banning in a game over hate speech for ex).

    Shoving off all the people deemed bigots into remote corners and not letting them speak sounds great in theory. But you just force them into echo chambers where they will get no exposure to opposing viewpoints or maybe meet someone who will actually have them change their mind. They are much more likely to become radicalised in such situations.

    Personally if a small private business does not want to serve someone, that's their right imo. Even if their reason for doing so is utterly stupid. Refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple for example. If they are going to refuse you service based on your sexuality then take your money elsewhere and make it known to other lgbt they should too. Forcing them to bake a cake makes no sense to me, because you are paying them when they object to your existence. Why would you? On the same premise if someone wanted a business meant to serve exclusively lgbt, they should have the right to do so without being forced to serve straight + cis people. Each business is knowingly taking a loss and customers have no shortage of other options to choose from. Only exclusions to such things should be human rights such as healthcare. Refusing life saving treatment due to your religious views should indeed be criminal.

    Right wing politics is on the rise because people are frankly tired of being told what their views have to be and what they HAVE to do. And if you don't conform well you must be a bigoted monster, it's what a very loud minority of people are yelling about and being pandered too and it's gotten old. I believe in tolerance, you do you and accept others doing their own thing too. You don't have to like it, but you shouldn't be trying to punish or attack them for w/e they are or do. I really dislike religion but I have to tolerate and have some basic respect for people that practice even when their views are totally opposed to my own. Demanding more is not tolerance, you are just trying to bully people into compliance.
    (3)
    Last edited by Aelin_Ashryver; 06-11-2022 at 10:17 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Saraide's Avatar
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    Saraide Derosa
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    Odin
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    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver View Post
    Right wing politics is on the rise because people are frankly tired of being told what their views have to be and what they HAVE to do. And if you don't conform well you must be a bigoted monster, it's what a very loud minority of people are yelling about and being pandered too and it's gotten old. I believe in tolerance, you do you and accept others doing their own thing too. You don't have to like it, but you shouldn't be trying to punish or attack them for w/e they are or do. I really dislike religion but I have to tolerate and have some basic respect for people that practice even when their views are totally opposed to my own. Demanding more is not tolerance, you are just trying to bully people into compliance.
    Lmao no, right wing politics are on the rise because there is so much money behind it to back it up which cascades in tons of different ways.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    RobynDaBank's Avatar
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    Hope Sunflame
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    Twintania
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    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Saraide View Post
    Lmao no, right wing politics are on the rise because there is so much money behind it to back it up which cascades in tons of different ways.
    Haha, what? Just the right wing? Damn.
    (2)
    Mortal Fist

  9. #9
    Player
    Ativan's Avatar
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    Too Much
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    Brynhildr
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    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonKeyh View Post
    Good news is that the rights that Trans people already have, prevent them from being systematically murdered.

    Unfortunately, freedom of speech means that people are free to show they they're useless pieces of human trash, and the stupidity of American voters keep those pieces of trash in office.

    What SPECIFIC rights need to be secured? All I hear is "Someone might actually do something (that is against the rights that everyone has and would only happen in a dystopian novel because it would mean somehow redefining what a "human" is)."
    Religious bigots can still literally murder trans people and get away with it by claiming 'gay panic'.
    (3)