What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Teraq]

> it asks me to choose between Venat, Hermes, Emet, All or None, and I cannot pick Mankind's First Hero, and His Final Hope, who stopped the Final Days, restored all life on the star and never faltered in his duty to his people, unlike Emet and his damned sentimentality who ended up backstabbing him.

I...

(sighs)

Do I need to get on my soapbox again, Ishikawa?

[Theodric]

I quite like Rowena, personally.

I did, however, raise an eyebrow on two fronts - FFXIV's inability to allow an isolated nation to remain isolated as well as the game trying to convince me that Sharlayan's borders were closed up until recently when there's male viera present on the Forum and as Gleaners.

[Theodric]

Any employer that makes use of indentured servitude, slave names, and 'company scrip' to be spent in 'company towns' frankly doesn't deserve to be in business.

She's ruthless and dubious, sure, yet that's what makes her entertaining to me. I'd be even more bored of the game than I am at present if every morally questionable character was killed off, hidden away or reformed.

[rxantos]

To be honest. We have been spoiled by Shadowbringers, which was a good story. So when we get a lackluster not caring anymore about story, it shows. Like being given a good wine and then in the next bottle being given vinegar.

Endwalker was just fanservice with an empty meaning. With the villain ended up being twitter (the blue bird). Meanwhile Garlemaid was underwelming. Even the praetorian was a better base. It was a half baked expansion and it showed.



Meanwhile the game dungeons has being turned into linear paths. Making it boring.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

She's ruthless and dubious, sure, yet that's what makes her entertaining to me. I'd be even more bored of the game than I am at present if every morally questionable character was killed off, hidden away or reformed.

And it does fit snugly with your beloved "rules for thee, not for me" as the WoL just exploits her slave empire to gain awesome gear, while ignoring the plight of her hapless victims. We can easily imagine some villain having a similiar empire that Alphinaud gives a patronizing speech about, while the WoL sits back with his/her weapon ready to make them see the light or end up dead.

[anhaato]

Looks like posts are disappearing from the thread again. Could they at least make it less obvious that they immediately ran here to gauge our reaction to the Omega quest? (I'm joking btw)

[Lustre]

Just finished the Omega quests and it was refreshing to see multiple angles being considered when looking at EW's plot, although I still think you'd have to be doing mental gymnast backflips to conclude Herme's "test" was "fair". Omega's observations were more or less on-point for every situation which felt strangely "meta" idk how to describe it. Nice to see a bit of nuance, even if it is being done retroactively

[Lauront]

All right, my views are...

On the one hand, it is good that this quest line is more definitively removing some of the more "judgemental" aspect to succumbing to despair, and attributing facing it to a myriad of personal factors, including the instinct to hide or run, rather than some form of emotional resilience or fortitude, pure and simple. The Garlean sequence was good to me in explaining the predicament of those Garleans willing to work with the Contingent, as their will to survive trumps any past grievances.

Now, to the ancient part, the one thing I still think is odd here is describing Hermes's actions in the same light as how the Omicrons' predecessors sought to evolve to better defend against those aggressing against them. For one, they had legitimate external threats; Hermes created the one which faced both the ancients and the broader universe, and subjected them all to a test born from a moment of spite, which the sundered only just survive because they get handed all the info in question. For another, the Omicrons took this to a point where it engendered their own destruction, losing any personhood - other than Sir, who Meteion convinced to just idle by. By contrast, it casts the Rejoinings in a purely destructive light - but hang on, if we're meant to assume Hermes's actions contributed to an "evolution" of sorts, then how are the Rejoinings not doing the same, by contributing to Venat's plan and ensuring the Source doesn't become like the Plenty? The sundering is at least acknowledged to have had victims, but it's still kept somewhat fuzzy, and the fact that the Rejoinings were set in motion to reverse it is neglected. And wasn't a point in SHB that some of the Scions, like Alisaie, would've done the same in that position to restore the world and people they love, in spite of the dire cost? With that said, at least there is an acknowledgement from Omega that this was a great civilisation, and there is an attempt to remind us the ancients are human-like in some respects, contributing to Omega's inability to fully comprehend them.

I am glad that you can at least pick an option here, and yes, I went with Emet-Selch. I could feel Yoshi and Ishikawa's eyes burning on the back of my neck as I refused to endorse their waifu and husbando, respectively. The "none" or "all" option would lying to myself, so I didn't pick them.

It was interesting how they chose to characterise the MC's reaction to the darker side of what Emet did with visceral pain, indicating they are divided in their sentiments towards him. Would that it were that the cost of the Sundering elicited a similar reaction. Overall, I can relate most to his struggle to restore a world prematurely shattered by ideologues claiming to be in pursuit of abstract ideals. Also, intriguingly, the same facial expression is maintained irrespective of which of the three you pick.

The revelation that the Watcher is modelled after what may well have been Venat's lover is interesting - there is nothing to confirm they were ever told about her true plans, and his devotion to her and her plan to the point where he wished to be alongside her even as her summon consumed his soul is touching (I almost felt sorry for the poor guy - talk about ultra simp), but as always, it seems to be a case of rules for thee but not for me with this lot. Like she wanted freedom for the sundered to choose their path... a freedom her own people were denied by her. It does strongly sound like her faction were projecting their desires for the world to go to the sundered onto the third round of sacrifices, so much so I am even more convinced now that a tale was concocted about how some of these beings "might" evolve, drawing on Venat's encounter with the WoL, to at the least buy her time through stoking opposition to the Convocation's plan.

This came 6 months too late, and I still feel the game was trying to push in favour of writer favourites, but it's at least not trying to railroad you into one single option like base 6.0 did. It also goes some way to reframing Omega's incomprehension at the mortal "heart" or "strength of soul", as he cannot comprehend this in dragons, ancients or mortal man, or even Sir, so he has to reframe his definition - I think this pushes strongly away from retrofitting "dynamis" into the reason Omega could not understand the WoL's strength. It was yet another missed opportunity to reference Elidibus at all, who was instrumental to the WoL's success. So overall, better than what 6.0 offered, but meh. I'll wait until 6.2 and the short stories before getting any hope as there were still lots of issues in presentation, and it's amazing that a toy robot was required to offer some level of nuance, even if not entirely accurate at times in the events it describes, plus there is always scope for the enlistment of more convoluted nonsense to try retroactively justify Hermes or Venat, or cracking another raw time travel egg to form a gloopy mess all over the plot.

At least these words by Omega resonated in terms of EW's plot and the well worn "forge ahead" mantra:

Omega: It defies all my attempts at reasoning...
Omega: But I was designed to evolve. If I continue to learn, the probability that I eventually comprehend this phenomenon is greater than zero.

Though only in the sense of understanding how train wrecks happen.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Just finished the Omega quests and it was refreshing to see multiple angles being considered when looking at EW's plot, although I still think you'd have to be doing mental gymnast backflips to conclude Herme's "test" was "fair". Omega's observations were more or less on-point for every situation which felt strangely "meta" idk how to describe it. Nice to see a bit of nuance, even if it is being done retroactively

Same can be said for people doing all sorts of mental gymnastics for coming up with their own reasons, honestly. Its nice that the quest at least offers a brief moment over who was at fault. Personally I chose with everyone was at fault and there's no justification for what they've done.

But theres no need to try to "justify" it imo. It is what it is. What happened, happened and were' just left to deal with the results or sit by and do nothing.

[Teraq]

Just finished the Omega quests and it was refreshing to see multiple angles being considered when looking at EW's plot, although I still think you'd have to be doing mental gymnast backflips to conclude Herme's "test" was "fair". Omega's observations were more or less on-point for every situation which felt strangely "meta" idk how to describe it. Nice to see a bit of nuance, even if it is being done retroactively

The more Ishikawa tries to push this the more I cringe, though at least Omega's reasoning on Hermes can reasonably be handwaved as coming from Omega, who previously was convinced Radz-at-Han citizens were half-dragons.

Once again I must ask, how could it ever be objective when we literally told him about the Final Days – both the first and current occurrences – to get his opinion on its workings? He knew how catastrophic his "objective test" would be. A TIME TRAVELER TOLD HIM! Consider he was also about to hand himself in, as he asks Meteion to answer one last question ("Is there a point to living, Twitter?") "before we are deprived of our freedom". Then he hears Meteion's answer, and only then does he snap (again) and decides to activate his secret Deus Ex Dumb Beam with the express intent of stopping anyone in the room from preventing the apocalypse. Literally none of this is objective or rational. It's less of a fair test, and more of an execution of the humanity he despised. And then he goes on to fight against the Final Days in complete earnest anyway, and apparently going with the 3rd sacrifice, because I, quite honestly, cannot make sense of the Twitterman and his motivations. Maybe if this quite lackluster story hadn't been so goddamned rushed, Ishikawa might have been able to properly write her favorite character without him suffering from unintentional multiple personality disorder.

(snip)

Great post.

I, too, went with Emet-Selch, because I have now given up on Ishikawa acknowledging the existence of any Ascian that isn't named Emet-Selch (Fandaniel doesn't count, if I may be 100% honest, we never see him in robes and mask and he always identifies as Amon), so I took this answer to mean "Ascians and Zodiark" as a whole.


On the multiple choice question of interest: in case anyone here was wondering, your answer does not affect any subsequent dialogue. However, it does change your character's facial expression when they deliver their answer. Answering with Venat, Hermes or Emet-Selch results in a determined facial expression, going with all of them having sort of a point results in a neutral facial expression and answering "none" has you looking rather sorry, and also, I must go now, my party needs me.