What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

It does indeed say "new life", but does it ever specify what kind? If you read the sources on the topic, you will see that this is life Zodiark would seed - and how do the ancients seed life? Via creation magicks (i.e. when they create beings the star sees as fit to gain a soul), something Zodiark readily manifests the ability to use in the fight with him. While there are indications at least some of this "new life" may have been potentially sapient (at least, according to her faction), we have to bear in mind the ancients are the only instance we know of, of a race of sapient beings naturally inhabiting the star. Zodiark - at least as far as we know - could not create more of their kind. Hence the speculation that her side may have been putting forth an argument that these beings (such as exceptional familiars or animals) could potentially grow sapient. She could even draw on her experience with the WoL to embellish. But as Rulakir mentioned, it's never a primary motivation of hers based on the Q&A, or indeed even based on the Anamnesis text. So I have to agree that this whole conflict appears to have been a red herring... and one which baited Elidibus out to mediate, allowing her an opportunity to combat Zodiark without his driver. All this plotting and scheming, it does seem very characteristic of her, IMO. Of course I am speculating a bit here to fill in the gaps the story left, but the point is, it's all very vague and not a primary motivator.

[Xirean]

I noticed a few people mention that Venat was grooming the WoL for the role they were meant to play (makes sense), but others mentioned that she was grooming or manipulating previous reincarnations of the WoL/Azem souls. Where is this mentioned?

[Lucida3b]

I think its more a idea people have, i doubt she was sensitive or knew enough to pick out other azem reincarnations

[TyrAtatoskr]

-snip-

Hard agree, nothing much more to say. power of friendship hit hard on The Walk, but that's about it.

[TyrAtatoskr]

It does indeed say "new life", but does it ever specify what kind? If you read the sources on the topic, you will see that this is life Zodiark would seed - and how do the ancients seed life? Via creation magicks (i.e. when they create beings the star sees as fit to gain a soul), something Zodiark readily manifests the ability to use in the fight with him. While there are indications at least some of this "new life" may have been potentially sapient (at least, according to her faction), we have to bear in mind the ancients are the only instance we know of, of a race of sapient beings naturally inhabiting the star. Zodiark - at least as far as we know - could not create more of their kind. Hence the speculation that her side may have been putting forth an argument that these beings (such as exceptional familiars or animals) could potentially grow sapient. She could even draw on her experience with the WoL to embellish. But as Rulakir mentioned, it's never a primary motivation of hers based on the Q&A, or indeed even based on the Anamnesis text. So I have to agree that this whole conflict appears to have been a red herring... and one which baited Elidibus out to mediate, allowing her an opportunity to combat Zodiark without his driver. All this plotting and scheming, it does seem very characteristic of her, IMO. Of course I am speculating a bit here to fill in the gaps the story left, but the point is, it's all very vague and not a primary motivator.

i believe the "other sapient life" were the "lesser races" in the planned-but-not-completed sacrifice. this would partially explain the non-hyur playable races as well as the beastmen, but without explicitly showing us what the "lesser races" were, it's speculation at best. bear in mind i haven't done any elpis sidequests.

[Lauront]

They addressed it via the Q&A. The sundered races are adaptations of the sundered ancients to the new environment they found themselves in. The Elpis sidequests did show a couple of beast men styled creations, e.g. Lupin - I suspect with the way the Sundering broke down the ancient souls, that sufficed for the star to begin sticking some of those into the beast men, as we know some of them have the Echo.

[Rulakir]

I noticed a few people mention that Venat was grooming the WoL for the role they were meant to play (makes sense), but others mentioned that she was grooming or manipulating previous reincarnations of the WoL/Azem souls. Where is this mentioned?

It's not explicitly mentioned anywhere. It's highly unlikely OG Azem knew of Venat's plan, but they were crucial to it. The WoL is obvious. Ardbert is the only other one we know of and within the context of EW I view him as another of her pawns/victims.

[DevonEllwood]

I've seen the Buddhist approach before and I feel I need to comment on it. I was in a borderline Christian school and I once asked someone, a very Christian person, why mean people exist. She said " If mean people didn't exist, then how would you know the nice people are actually nice?". Christianity states that suffering is inevitable just like so many other religions and beliefs in the world. It's not unique to Buddhism and it's not a novel concept. Isn't Buddhism suppose to reject all pleasures and desires, including closeness with others because they're why suffering exists? We literally defeat a giant space chicken with the power of friendship. Isn't Nirvana the end of suffering? Or is there something I'm not understanding?

Religions have various statements on suffering and they can boil down it's going to happen in life. Get used to it. Some of them have some kind of "end" to suffering in some form or another. Suffering can be argued as being one of the main reasons religion exists to begin with. People suffer and they want to know why, so they come up with something.

It's not like Japan is not know for using western religions in their media anyway. Seeing Endwalker as a thrown from paradise story as people have already explained isn't seeing it through a "western lens". It's literally what it is.

Also if this thread is re-made, can the first post please incorporate more of the different complaints with Endwalker?

"Remember us. Remember that we once lived… Also remember to watch out for that crazy guy Fandaniel. His pet bird caused the final days. I was there with my good friend Hythlodaeus and we ran into you because you got sent to the past by our good friend Elidibus. We went there to meet our good friend Hermes and his pet bird. Hermes's bird was capable of destroying entire planets because she had emotion energy, a concept so advanced only Hermes and an elephant knew it existed. Hermes was going to let the bird destroy our planet because he wanted to do an experiment. And then he was going to memory wipe all of us until Venat flew in on her magical dog and escaped with you. She then for some reason decided not to tell anyone about what happened and instead doomed us all to die, including our good friend Azem who fell into a Volcano while trying to find the source of the noise even though Venat knew all along because she put a magic microchip on Hermes’s bird. She then became Hydaelyn and sundered the world because a bunch of weak humans who die after 80 years were better equipped to deal with the threat than immortal gods who could create whatever they wanted at will. Except the only “human” that could actually stand up to Meteion was 9/14ths of our good friend Azem who also needed Hydaelyns blessing to survive along with my great-grandson Zenos Viator Galvus who had Hydaelyns blessing too, except his was reverse-engineered in a Garlean laboratory. And he was a good friend."

This just reminds me just how stupid the story is. And it doesn't include the moon being a spaceship.

[Lauront]

It's not like Japan is not know for using western religions in their media anyway. Seeing Endwalker as a thrown from paradise story as people have already explained isn't seeing it through a "western lens". It's literally what it is.

I also find the line of thinking somewhat strange. I've had a look at some of the Japanese complaints on the story and many of them echo the points being made in this thread. I do not know to what level of frequency these debates occur in their communities, but suffice it to say, the sort of dissatisfaction with elements of the story being voiced here is not alien to them.

[Lunaxia]

Am I mistaken, or was my last post here deleted? Did something happen? It seems a few posts have gone...