What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

It's hard to say. I never expected the writers to have everything planned out though I at least hoped they had the good sense to look at WoW's mess of a story and strive to not repeat the same mistake of mindlessly pursuing 'rUlE oF CoOl' and 'fEeLs' at the cost of narrative cohesion.

What's interesting is that I recently learned that ESO employs the services of a skilled individual well versed in the vast lore of the Elder Scrolls in order to ensure that things line up as well as they can. I wonder if that's something that FFXIV could benefit from?

[jameseoakes]

It's hard to say. I never expected the writers to have everything planned out though I at least hoped they had the good sense to look at WoW's mess of a story and strive to not repeat the same mistake of mindlessly pursuing 'rUlE oF CoOl' and 'fEeLs' at the cost of narrative cohesion.

What's interesting is that I recently learned that ESO employs the services of a skilled individual well versed in the vast lore of the Elder Scrolls in order to ensure that things line up as well as they can. I wonder if that's something that FFXIV could benefit from?

They are suppose to have that, I have a feeling they lost too many of the staff that had a strong handle on the extended lore to 16 leaving a team that only seems interested in having big set pieces but not interesting in how they fit with what they did before

[kpxmanifesto]

I personally do wonder which details of the final days were planned out before EW was fully realized, like I do feel there is a emotion energy concept already there as emotions are noted with the second beast i think? but how much of it was fully planned out is my question

I'm going to guess that not much of it was. Meteion and Dynamis were so out of left field that there's no way they could've been thought of before EW started production. I'd be happy if anyone can point out to me that they were.

[Xirean]

I'm going to guess that not much of it was. Meteion and Dynamis were so out of left field that there's no way they could've been thought of before EW started production. I'd be happy if anyone can point out to me that they were.

That's part of the issue with stories where the whole point is "What did this?" Everything hinges on us not knowing until the end which can mean that the ultimate answer can be unsatisfying.

[Theodric]

As an aside, I saw this interesting thread earlier today:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...s-unacceptable

I figured I'd link it here for those who may not have seen it since it raises many of the same points brought up here.

[Rulakir]

What's interesting is that I recently learned that ESO employs the services of a skilled individual well versed in the vast lore of the Elder Scrolls in order to ensure that things line up as well as they can. I wonder if that's something that FFXIV could benefit from?

I thought that was Oda's job?

Sadly, I'm not convinced they care about the lore anymore. Yoshi-P seems wholly disinterested in it. Not only rushing an abrupt end to the history of the world, but looking visibly exasperated discussing it in the LL and the infamous (direct quote), "Wow, you guys are paying close attention to this game." :P

[Lauront]

I thought that was Oda's job?

Sadly, I'm not convinced they care about the lore anymore. Yoshi-P seems wholly disinterested in it. Not only rushing an abrupt end to the history of the world, but looking visibly exasperated discussing it in the LL and the infamous (direct quote), "Wow, you guys are paying close attention to this game." :P

It is meant to be Oda's job, but considering he supposedly consulted with him and Ishikawa for answering some of the Q&A stuff, make of it what you will. Either there was a bit of Yoshi free-styling going on there, or it's a case of what you mention.

[KageTokage]

The Omega questline was rather interesting, not least of all...

for how Omega questions the actions and logic of Venat, Hermes, and Emet Selch, and rather satisfyingly allows you to decide which one in particular you thought was justified, that they were all justified in their own ways, or that none of them were justified.

It implies that while our character does like Venat/Hydaelyn to some extent, you don't necessarily agree with how they chose to handle things.

I also just appreciate that the story opted to raise those questions at all since it might encourage more people to think a bit more deeply about Endwalker instead of just taking everything at face value.

[Amenara]

Gonna just kinda ignore the long conversation and give my plebeian take on some of the hot topics.

I didn't see Venat as a good or bad character in the end, she was an ancient driven by her own hubris in the same way Emet Selch was driven by his own in Shadowbringers. To me the ancients all had a mightier than thou attitude towards everything and they could do no wrong. I think it was exemplified with seeing Venat and Hermes in EW and how they acted towards their ideas. I also think the ancient's storyline is fraught with plotholes and questions, my biggest one is one that is kinda carried in here with how the sundering actually happened since we get the story of it in ShB but they kind of imply everything with EW with the very vague scene that I think was meant to be an allegory for everything with Venat.

My problems with the EW story come from how much felt like filler. All of Labyrinthos until the last 5 minutes of MSQ felt like filler to me due to none of it mattering until we unlock the aetherial sea dungeon and the space ship. The first half of Thavnair was about getting the macguffin and destroying a tower that turned out to not matter at all to the plot. The second half was actually good to me and made me really feel how real the final days could have been. Garlemald felt too rushed and that there could have been a lot more time invested in there, otherwise what we got I thought was good as well. The moon was fine through Zodiark and should have been used as setup for the final days but turned into a filler storyline with the mini buns that completely broke the tension that started with the death of Zodiark. I have less issues with Elpis as most of the people here do as I saw it for what it was intended, the complete setup for the big bad for the end of the story. I think my biggest complaint was immediately knowing she was the cause of the final days because of her voice on the moon which killed a lot of the build up the zone had. I liked that they showed more of the ancient's society and the hubris of the ancients and will probably go against the grain here and say I enjoyed seeing Emet's and Hythlo's interactions with each other. Ultima Thule was easily the worst zone. It could have been setup as an end to Thancred's story but immediately turned into the ultimate bait zone that felt unsatisfying and actually made me mad at the writers for how they handled it. When Y'shtola flat out told us how to save everyone you knew immediately that their "deaths" were just completely bait and meant nothing in the long run.

The biggest things I hated was how underutilized the Final Days were in the story. The amazing cutscene in Thavnair when everything goes to hell through the tension of Vanspati and the 2nd half of Thavnair made it feel like a real threat that we could do nothing about. I feel like they should have leaned into that harder and made the urgency of finding a solution feel that much more important instead of relegating it to a duty in Garlemald and the echo for the last bit in Sharlyan. Ultima Thule was a mess that could have been a good send-off for at least Thancred and made the threat from Meteion feel better instead of her taunting us about despair and temporarily removing the scions through our travel in the final zone.

Overall I am meh towards the story. It is still better than Stormblood's 4.0 MSQ, however I will put it below HW's and ShB's story. If you asked me back in December I would have put my opinion about the story higher, but the more I think about it, the more issues I find with it.

[Lauront]

After Elpis, I can't say I really got the impression of them as being characterised by hubris (any more than the sundered), or that the story was trying to convey the notion that they thought they could do no wrong. Neither really shone through. While this may have characterised Venat, she is also described by Emet (relaying her mentee's views on her) as distant, and the fact that Yoshi has to compare her to an Emet-Selch changed by 12k years of a gruesome toil for this comparison to succeed is intriguing. Both her and Hermes are outliers, and everything we know about their society suggests the opposite of them thinking they could do no wrong - Hermes after all does what he does through violating their protocols. The ancients' mentality, much like that of the elder dragons, obviously will differ, because they're a near-immortal species with great natural powers, but EW failed to undo what SHB succeeded at: showing their more human aspects; in fact, it added to that if you ignore Yoshi's attempt to re-cast them as "scary", which sits rather bizarrely with what is shown in the self-same area's sidequests.

The Omega questline was rather interesting, not least of all...

for how Omega questions the actions and logic of Venat, Hermes, and Emet Selch, and rather satisfyingly allows you to decide which one in particular you thought was justified, that they were all justified in their own ways, or that none of them were justified.

It implies that while our character does like Venat/Hydaelyn to some extent, you don't necessarily agree with how they chose to handle things.

I also just appreciate that the story opted to raise those questions at all since it might encourage more people to think a bit more deeply about Endwalker instead of just taking everything at face value.

It's a pity that it's in side content, and there is always the possibility that they're using it to gauge reception of some EW characters (even if it's a slightly odd place for it), but it's a positive turn that it's at least framed with some options.

I'll have to check Gamerescape later to see if the various options come up to see the differences in tone/follow-up for each.