What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[BaconBits]

Yes, I'd heartily second all those points. I'm still somewhat peeved that they chose to depict the Sundering visually in the crossover with that Nier game, but at least they did it somewhere.

I'm going to begin (though others may have a head start) semi-facetiously referring to this as our EW group therapy thread.

I beg your pardon?

They chose to depict the Sundering in the Nier crossover and not the expac touted as the finale to a 10 year saga?

[Rulakir]

I just legit find the concept anti-thetical to what characters preach if you think about it. It inherently implies you should stop making things better at some point which feels so antithetical to the whole 'for those who walk after' spiel constantly uttered in the game.

Hydaelyn embodies everything the Scions have consistently fought against, so their disregard of the fact that she's actually worse than an Ascian made them appear as self-serving hypocrites. "It's okay as long as it benefits us." Having said that, I can't even argue it's character inconsistent as all of the Scions have been on a spectrum of zealotry when it comes to her with Minfilia being the worst. Lest we forget they hand waved Hydaelyn pressuring Minfilia to kill herself and using her as a puppet as somehow "free will".

Krile allows herself to be possessed despite questioning Hydaelyn's intentions at the end of ShB, apparently because she was just too charming to resist. Y'shtola credits Hydaelyn with having forestalled the Final Days after she knows better from the moon. Thancred, the person who should have the most ire towards Hydaelyn, never expresses discontent with her and places his faith fully in her simply due to Minfilia. I'll say again, Hydaelyn tempering makes EW make more sense. The WoL, in particular, has no reason whatsoever to trust her. This is the woman who ended their original life and groomed them to be her champion based on a history of deceit. This whole bit of "she's on your side this time" doesn't work for me. She's shown to have no love or loyalty to anyone but her ideology and if sundering the Scions would've furthered her goal she 100% would have done it and they would not have been okay with it.

In any case, I've unsubbed due to the story and its direction

I wonder how many people have unsubbed due to the story. I know of several in this thread and I've one foot out the door myself.

I didn't necessarily hate Emet and Hythlodaeus in Elpis, but I wonder what we might have gotten without the fanservice lens, especially with Hyth.

What was wrong with Hyth? I didn't hate everything involving Emet, but it became obvious once Venat was introduced in Elpis that his character became manipulated. I'd initially glossed over it, but he hails her as having a "wealth of wisdom and experience" that is "unmatched" with "extraordinary" achievements in creation magicks, going on to to say her "singular brilliance" sets her apart and she's a "force of nature". So, essentially she's the smartest, most talented and accomplished Ancient who ever lived? Really? Why didn't she just single-handedly stop the Final Days herself? :eyeroll:

Much like the Scions with Hydaelyn, Emet's intellect seems to be drained from him whenever it concerns Venat or the sundering. We get brief moments where it seems clear he doesn't like her despite his praise in both Elpis and Ultima Thule, but I found it inconsistent. UT especially after Ishikawa doubled down on his 12k years of "hatred and heartbreak" in NieR. It simply wasn't believable and the fact that I see his UT dialog quoted incessantly (often by people who hate his character) to "prove" Venat was right further demonstrates that point. Yoshi-P's already admitted to using Emet because he's a fan favorite to push messages, so I suspect this is more of the same. Made worse by the fact that his takes on Emet's character and why he's popular are... bad. He has no business writing for Emet at all.

They chose to depict the Sundering in the Nier crossover and not the expac touted as the finale to a 10 year saga?

Accurately depicting the brutality of the sundering would've caused people to question the righteousness and benevolence of "crystal mommy" and they couldn't have that.

[Dikatis]

Y'shtola credits Hydaelyn with having forestalled the Final Days after she knows better from the moon.

This is straight up false. Here is what Y'shtola says:

By sundering the world into fourteen shards, the aether of all living beings too was divided. This reduction would in theory allow us to more easily interact with dynamis. Having seen mankind brought to the very precipice of extinction, you wished for us to develop a means to overcome despair. You believed we had the potential, and sundered all creation to see it fulfilled. To deliver us to that swirling maelstrom of dynamis in which our foe hides, and grant us the power to defeat her once and for all. Is this not true?

[Rulakir]

This is straight up false. Here is what Y'shtola says:

Your move.

[KariTheFox]

Your move.

That quote is from At World's End, which is before the visit to Elpis. Y'shtola had an innacruate understanding of the situation, and then after you visited Elpis she had a different understanding based on what you told her.

This isn't a contradiction, you're just being dishonest.

[Lauront]

I wonder how many people have unsubbed due to the story. I know of several in this thread and I've one foot out the door myself.

I'm giving it until 6.2, as it's around the time the short stories should be due to come out, plus it'll have the next stage of Pandaemonium. If that ends up just being more doubling down on "mommy loves you, she's GOOD, herois, HEROIS, ACCEPT HER LOVE, ok!?!?!", I am going to unsub as well, as I've no desire to be preached at in that manner, particularly if they begin/continue bending the writing in this direction. I really don't care for the inconsistent, hamfisted themes EW tried to push, as is. I was also not a fan of how Y'shtola was portrayed and G'raha following me around all the time in 6.1, and I really wanted to see a new (and better) cast enter the fray - given that even Yoshi has reservations about Y'shtola's portrayal in 6.1, we'll see if that sinks in for 6.2. They'll have had time to reflect on any 6.0 feedback as well by that point. So a lot riding on it potentially.

[Lunaxia]

What was wrong with Hyth?

I've always been very fond of Hyth, right from his first appearance in Amaurot (albeit as a shade.) We may not have had a tonne of information about him prior to EW, but from what we did learn I just found him really interesting, and I had hoped Emet, and to a degree other parts of SHB, had paved the way for more thoughtful, complex characterisations than before. He represented the first fleshed out, non-Ascian Ancient in the story and had a significant connection with Emet, while at the same time seemed to serve as a potentially fascinating foil; a whimsical, peaceable yet discerning character that kept his own counsel, yet was hinted as matching him and the Ascians in terms of power and intelligence. I looked forward to his own take of what had transpired during and after the Final Days, and what his dynamic with the other Ancients might add to the story.

I was incredibly disappointed to see him reduced down to what felt like little more than Emet's adoring, self-deprecating sidekick who had almost no purpose or perspective outside of Emet and Azem, and only seemed to be there to emphasise how great and wonderful they are. Suddenly, the Chief of the Bureau of the Architect - you know, the overseer of the institution that rules over all of creation magicks - became the weaker, lesser character happily dwarfed by his friends trope that permeates Japanese media, whose sole redeeming ability was his innate soul sight. Paired with Emet's intense tsundere-ification, there was just a distinct lack of depth that I had been hoping for since the end of SHB. That aside with the WoL in particular trying to hammer home what a good guy Emet was felt so shallow and forced, and followed EW's unfortunate trend of telling, not showing that SHB for the most part seemed to avoid so well.

[Rulakir]

This isn't a contradiction, you're just being dishonest.

The dishonesty here is EN localization if this line is not consistent in other languages. I can't be expected to be multilingual because the EN translators suck at their job.

Having compared some scenes with someone who plays in FR, it seems EN missed out on a lot of context. Nothing narrative breaking, but certainly within the realm of "that seemed important". Are we now coming across dialog that's not even remotely similar between languages? Because that is a problem.

I was incredibly disappointed to see him reduced down to what felt like little more than Emet's adoring, self-deprecating sidekick who had almost no purpose or perspective outside of Emet and Azem, and only seemed to be there to emphasise how great and wonderful they are. Suddenly, the Chief of the Bureau of the Architect - you know, the overseer of the institution that rules over all of creation magicks - became the weaker, lesser character happily dwarfed by his friends trope that permeates Japanese media, whose sole redeeming ability was his innate soul sight. Paired with Emet's intense tsundere-ification, there was just a distinct lack of depth that I had been hoping for since the end of SHB. That aside with the WoL in particular trying to hammer home what a good guy Emet was felt so shallow and forced, and followed EW's unfortunate trend of telling, not showing that SHB for the most part seemed to avoid so well.

I can't disagree with that assessment, although, I still adored Hythlodaeus (and have since ShB). I love the 'trio' and how all 3 are presented as having deeply cared for one another to the extent that they had planned to return to the star together. I thought that was beautiful.

I would say hopefully Hythlodaeus gets a chance to shine later, but Yoshi-P seems to want to wash his hands of everything Ancient. I have seen several fan made comics where he is depicted as working closely with the Convocation and otherwise a 'big deal' in his position as Chief of the Bureau of the Architect.