What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[KariTheFox]

Did Amaurot even have a population of billions? You can't just throw out numbers like that. Given that they're based on Greek philosophical treatises, and thus anicent Greek city states, I imagine thier population was quite a bit smaller than that.

Also, we saw all the souls milling about on the moon that were trapped in Zodiark, didn't look like billions to me.

[anhaato]

There’s no way you’re seriously saying that.

[YukikoKurosawa]

We really don't know the actual numbers so throwing around millions / billions / trillions is sort of moot, but considering the size of the world based on Amaurot dungeon depiction at the end, and based on the fact that it's established there were numerous Ancient nations, I would think their population was very, very high. But the writers could come out and say there were only 1 million of them in total, even if it doesn't make sense. This doesn't really change the morality of the discussion, however, so I don't think it matters. Even if there were only 100000 ancients across the entire planet it would still be the same moral argument.

[Rulakir]

children freeze to death in the snow

This just reminds me how antithetical Hydaelyn was to Ysayle. Also Ardbert, although, for different reasons. The irony being she's supposed to be some kind of patron goddess to the WoLs who are ignorant that her ideology is actually opposed to theirs. Now that I think about it, Emet saying their world will have no need for heroes would comparatively seem the more noble goal.

But the writers could come out and say there were only 1 million of them in total, even if it doesn't make sense.

Amaurot appears based on NYC to me, which has a population of almost 10 million. I'm willing to accept by the time Zodiark was summoned that Amaurot was probably the last city standing and on the precipice, so the 75% of their race was probably of those who were still living in Amaurot at the time to make such a sacrifice. However, my guess is prior to the Final Days that Etheirys' population was at a bare minimum in the hundreds of millions and that assumes most of the star was uninhabited outside of metropoli.

[Lauront]

It's worth noting that the 2 week delay just prior to EW release was for knock-on QA work to be done after further work was done to tie up "loose" ends to do with the story (see here - they discuss it here). This is very vague, and while it does sound like the decision to compress this came sooner (and even so, Ishikawa had concerns about this as she felt she had material for 7.0 and possibly even up to 8.0, and was worried about whether she'd be able to manage this time compression), this does suggest more rewrites past that point. The expansion (usually planned to release every 2 years, so around June 2021) was delayed over and above the time they said they'd need to account for COVID as well, which we could put at around 3-4 months. Whilst we can all only speculate, I don't think what Anhaato is proposing is at all implausible - bearing in mind, it would've not been during that 2 week period but before. That added time was to get the QA up to scratch.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'm sure concocting elaborate conspiracy theories about last minute rewrites must be fun, but I think a simpler explanation is that a story was written with a moral framework and belief system you don't agree with.

More like a moral framework/belief system that anyone with an onze of empathy wouldn’t agree with. It seriously makes me question where the devs mental state is if they’re justifying genocide because hot mommy told them to…

[Raoabolic]

It's worth noting that the 2 week delay just prior to EW release was for knock-on QA work to be done after further work was done to tie up "loose" ends to do with the story (see here - they discuss it here). This is very vague, and while it does sound like the decision to compress this came sooner (and even so, Ishikawa had concerns about this as she felt she had material for 7.0 and possibly even up to 8.0, and was worried about whether she'd be able to manage this time compression), this does suggest more rewrites past that point.

That sounds more like PR speak of, "we are rushing this to meet the street date. Please understand.". It also doesn't bode well when the head writer says that she has made enough content for 7.0 and even 8.0. I've played through StB and EW, I'm not sure i'm down for two more expansions with that kind of story considering ShB's story feels more like a fluke than the mark of a decent writer. If the gameplay doesn't hook me then what's left? The music? I can buy the album, i'm not worried about that. I guess we will see if the story gets better when we cross that bridge of 7.0 and 8.0.

[Skyborne]

"Suffering is a part of life and we must cope by seeking joy in ourselves/others and make our own meaning of life" is a framework I agree with...

... Nonetheless, the sheer amount of double standards and hypocrisy born of trying to also appeal to the twitter/reddit/whatever 'omg he's such a gremlin gjsdgsdlgksgsdolgjsdig xD' shipper crowd and get us to adore certain characters just does not mix, like oil and water. It vastly undermined its own 'lesson' in my eyes. Cruelty and suffering for thee, Joe Sundered and Joecles Ancient, while our richkid scholar buddies all just stoicly nod and walk on across a pile of million corpses which is okay because we benefit, never in any sort of real danger. Not uplifting or hopeful for me, sorry.

[Raoabolic]

"Suffering is a part of life and we must cope by seeking joy in ourselves/others and make our own meaning of life" is a framework I agree with...

... Nonetheless, the sheer amount of double standards and hypocrisy born of trying to also appeal to the twitter/reddit/whatever 'omg he's such a gremlin gjsdgsdlgksgsdolgjsdig xD' shipper crowd and get us to adore certain characters just does not mix, like oil and water. It vastly undermined its own 'lesson' in my eyes. Cruelty and suffering for thee, Joe Sundered and Joecles Ancient, while our richkid scholar buddies all just stoicly nod and walk on across a pile of million corpses which is okay because we benefit, never in any sort of real danger. Not uplifting or hopeful for me, sorry.

Not even the ancients get away with the inconsistent writing. My boy Arenvald gets a raw deal and still is more likeable than the scions. How is someone that is so positive seem more nuanced than the main characters? You know what, i'm glad he gets pushed aside in the main story, I don't want the writers messing with his character, lol.

[Rulakir]

It was very on the nose, and the reason it fell flat was because Venat was most definitely hamfisted and portrayed as an anti-villain "unintentionally."

I admit thematically EW was a huge miss for me. I just wanted a good story that was entertaining and EW was neither. However, my main point of contention is the justification/celebration of the Ancients being decimated and the glorification of the individual(s) responsible, which sullies not only EW as a whole but all of the game lore. Not to mention I no longer have faith the writers/devs can appropriately handle certain themes, particularly not a "conflict of values".

The time loop is a substantial secondary part of it. Do not send my character into the past to interact while not being able to avert either of the two biggest omnicidal events in history. Worse, the WoL is now an accomplice to at least one of them for having given Venat the idea of the sundering in the first place. (I don't care if it's a paradox, it's effed up they did this at all.)