What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Striker44]

It's nice to see that there's Japanese players who echo many of our same stances. Less nice to see that they, too, have to deal with their fair share of 'knights' as they aptly put it.

Well, I mean, technically that's true. It would be true of literally any topic under the sun, and with any group of people, that there would be someone somewhere who has a similar opinion as you, but...if it helps you sleep at night...

It just makes it all the more ridiculous when people try to say it's just a handful of people complaining in this thread.

Well, because it is. Peruse the thread a bit and you'll see the same handful of names coming up over and over again. Then go take a trip over to Youtube and start going through some EW videos. Can be gameplay, can be the OST, doesn't really matter. You'll be wading through hundreds and hundreds of comments from hundreds and hundreds of different people almost universally praising the game. It's like the shock some people experienced recently with that poll about characters and seeing so many of the Scions actually rank as very popular. If your view is limited to the echo chamber that is this forum, you'd be taken completely by surprise. But if you step back and see the bigger picture, you'll see that people's takes in general about EW are far and away that it's a great expansion with great characters.

[Tama-Kanzashi]

Well, I mean, technically that's true. It would be true of literally any topic under the sun, and with any group of people, that there would be someone somewhere who has a similar opinion as you, but...if it helps you sleep at night...



Well, because it is. Peruse the thread a bit and you'll see the same handful of names coming up over and over again. Then go take a trip over to Youtube and start going through some EW videos. Can be gameplay, can be the OST, doesn't really matter. You'll be wading through hundreds and hundreds of comments from hundreds and hundreds of different people almost universally praising the game. It's like the shock some people experienced recently with that poll about characters and seeing so many of the Scions actually rank as very popular. If your view is limited to the echo chamber that is this forum, you'd be taken completely by surprise. But if you step back and see the bigger picture, you'll see that people's takes in general about EW are far and away that it's a great expansion with great characters.

Have you considered for a moment that it is people like you who make those who are dissatisfied borderline scared of voicing their opinion? Because whenever even the slightest, tiniest bit of criticism is offered, people like you crawl out of the woodwork and start screaming about "HOW DARE! EVERYONE LOVES IT! YOU ARE WRONG!!1".
And then people like you and your amigos who cannot accept different opinions come into this thread, start screaming the same thing and insist that you are right.

Yes, this is exactly what happens here - those who are feverishly obsessed with the game insisting that it can do no wrong and that their opinion is the ultimate pinnacle of objectiveness just trample over those who dare to voice criticism. Scream them into the ground until they are too scared to say anything.

Then once something goes horribly wrong with the game you will also be the first ones to start whining "Why did nobody ever say anything?!".

[Cilia]

Have you considered for a moment that it is people like you who make those who are dissatisfied borderline scared of voicing their opinion? Because whenever even the slightest, tiniest bit of criticism is offered, people like you crawl out of the woodwork and start screaming about "HOW DARE! EVERYONE LOVES IT! YOU ARE WRONG!!1".
And then people like you and your amigos who cannot accept different opinions come into this thread, start screaming the same thing and insist that you are right.

Yes, this is exactly what happens here - those who are feverishly obsessed with the game insisting that it can do no wrong and that their opinion is the ultimate pinnacle of objectiveness just trample over those who dare to voice criticism. Scream them into the ground until they are too scared to say anything.

Then once something goes horribly wrong with the game you will also be the first ones to start whining "Why did nobody ever say anything?!".

I don't see anyone dissatisfied holding their tongues here, and from the sounds of it you're more interested in having other people validate your opinions on the subject than actually discussing them. Point of fact it seems to me the people who are satisfied with Endwalker and do enjoy its story and characters are the ones being shouted into silence, on this forum if nothing else.

If you want the official forums to be an Endwalker hate echo chamber... I mean... I guess that's fine, so long as you recognize it for what it is. But it's an open forum, and people with dissenting opinions are free to voice that. Criticize all you like - different strokes for different folks - but please don't insult, belittle, or attack people who contest your assertions. Respectfully.

[DevonEllwood]

If you want the official forums to be an Endwalker hate echo chamber... I mean... I guess that's fine, so long as you recognize it for what it is.

Even if it is, would it matter? The forums are also a housing hate echo chamber. It's a healing one-button-rotation hate echo chamber. If a thread on the forums has to become an echo chamber to give these people solace or get a point across, then I don't have a problem with it.

I saw a thread wanting more effort from people. I go to discussion subreddit and someone was explaining that one of their friends won't stop healing on red mage to "help" the healers. The subreddit is known to be more critical than the other ones, but even the response is "it's not savage, don't worry about it". Anywhere off the forums and being critical with anything about the game will usually result a vast majority of people defending the game.

There's also the fact that a lot of criticism about the game is initially labeled as trolling. Even a well known streamer took a look at this thread's title and called it trolling. It kind of sucks. It sucks the housing situation seems to have no end. It sucks that healers are no longer multi tasking and are reduced to spamming one button for 80% of the encounter. It sucks that hrothgar waited patiently for new hairstyles only to be given the option to turn into earrless Karens years later. The developers can do better. I feel the writers can do better than what we got in Endwalker.

[Lauront]

Yeah almost like fans of a thing gravitate to other media of it, particularly on videos of it with soundtracks relating to it. There's over 1m players of this game, who play it for different reasons, and rate it at varying levels of satisfaction, and those self-same player count figures exhibit a considerable degree of churn. Going to the sites with the most gushing enthusiasm isn't going to get you an honest view of it any more than fixating solely on complaints on a site built for providing feedback - although as Yoshi knows, neither is it a particularly bright idea as a business to just brush those away and assume those who are silent are fully content. I am not sure what "shock" you are referring to, or why you think anyone here only posts on this forum, when we've repeatedly mentioned we frequent other sites too, including those which lean "positive", such as Reddit which, by the by, is also showing increasing levels of fragmentation in its views towards EW. Now if you have nothing else to do but spam "but if only you saw what I saw, you'd know the truth", while doing absolutely nothing to substantiate your opinions except citing sites which have their own issues in acting as representative samples of the game's overall playerbase, then there is little further point in commenting on the matter, because you're not adding anything. What difference does it make to those who disliked it to know we're some vaguely defined minority? It changes virtually nothing. But if believing your own pronouncements that the game is "great" and preaching about it non stop to the heathens helps you sleep at night, carry on. Perhaps you really need that positive self-reinforcement. Something tells me you don't really believe your own swill and that's the reason behind the constant attempts to control the narrative.

[Theodric]

I think that's a pretty disingenuous reading of the situation. I would not say that the people who enjoyed Endwalker are being persecuted or shouted down.

[KageTokage]

I think that's a pretty disingenuous reading of the situation. I would not say that the people who enjoyed Endwalker are being persecuted or shouted down.

I virtually never see anybody expressing frustration at people liking it, but I sure as heck see them attacking others for daring to imply that anything about it was poorly written or could've been better.

I do honestly kind of get a kick out of seeing how many people will dogpile me in Twitch chat and elsewhere for giving my blunt, honest opinion about the elements that bugged me that the majority tend to gush over, using tried and true flimsy counterarguments like "You just don't understand it!" in protest. At this point, I'm kind of numb to it after all the snark and ridicule various individuals have chosen to inject into this thread and elsewhere.

[Theodric]

I virtually never see anybody expressing frustration at people liking it, but I sure as heck see them attacking others for daring to imply that anything about it was poorly written or could've been better.

I do honestly kind of get a kick out of seeing how many people will dogpile me in Twitch chat and elsewhere for giving my blunt, honest opinion about the elements that bugged me that the majority tend to gush over, using tried and true flimsy counterarguments like "You just don't understand it!" in protest. At this point, I'm kind of numb to it after all the snark and ridicule various individuals have chosen to inject into this thread and elsewhere.

Yeah, it's not just limited to the story either - the mere suggestion that something about the game could stand to be improved is treated like a deeply personal attack by some within this game's community. Then, in turn, they see it as justified to launch actual personal attacks towards whoever is providing that feedback.

A lot of people also seem to be under the impression that we're obligated to ask 'permission' to voice our thoughts. I've put a handful of posters on ignore precisely because it is clear to me that they're not here to debate or discuss but merely to police what is liked or disliked. I'll admit that my concerns with the game go beyond the story itself as of its current trajectory though there are still elements of the game that I enjoy and I have friends who still play it. So the whole 'just quit if u don't liek the story' that some like to trot out doesn't really work either.

I'm mostly waiting to see what 6.2 brings and if it wasn't for being lucky enough to own a house then I wouldn't be logging in at all lately. Admittedly most of my gaming time is spent on other games lately simply because there isn't much to do in FFXIV between patches once you're all caught up.

[Yeastyloins]

Yeah, it's not just limited to the story either - the mere suggestion that something about the game could stand to be improved is treated like a deeply personal attack by some within this game's community. Then, in turn, they see it as justified to launch actual personal attacks towards whoever is providing that feedback.

I've seen that with alot of die-hard fans of 14, they honestly come off as Harry Potter fans and it makes me not want to associate with 90% of the playerbase in addition to many people having the concept that the fact that either the game or their gameplay is an invalidation of their whole existence or something.