Action condensing options

[LittleImp]

An additional layer of execution being condensed to little more than "press next number" is hardly some intense thought.

An actual layer of execution would require more reactive responses. An enemy is casting X, however, if they are casting something else, Y is the better option. I must keep Z up now before the next phase, as I will not be able to reapply Z come that moment. There are extremely few, if any, moments like that in this game.

Execution isn't inherently tied to any kind of thought process. In Rythm games, high-level play typically revolves around memorizing and repeating a scripted map of inputs. Combos are just a convolution to provide some variety and depth to filler inputs, while the 'thinking' happens in more manageable intervals determined by your overall rotation and cooldowns. Homogenization is definitely a problem in this respect, but giving jobs even less buttons to press doesn't help anything. Condensing combos isn't going to prompt the devs to add complexity in their place.

This is why I often say this game is complex in name only. Aside from many a button, there's not much behind it. And, again, there are some buttons that simply have no business not being collapsible. I once again bring up Ikushoten and Ogi Namikiri, which are buttons that are intrinsically tied (You literally cannot cast Namikiri without Ikushoten) yet are two different buttons. This is hardly complex, but instead just tedium pretending to be complexity.

I have to side with an earlier poster; I don't really think it's reasonable to comment on a games complexity when you don't actually do the offered content that fully engages the games mechanics. I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that more of the games content should necessitate jobs to actually interact with their toolkit in a meaningful way.

Both of you can cope about how it's more complex to press a button with the label 2 over it rather than 1 all you want, but it doesn't make things any more deep. If you truly are going to tell me that complexity is something we were all taught in pre-school, then what a pathetic bar to pass and I have no need to discuss with either of you. .

Ok, with all of what you've just said taken into account;

Can you explain why you yourself frequently fail to complete combos during combat encounters? Is it just personal choice not to interact with the combo system or something?

[LeonKeyh]

lol

You're arguing "because there is something that can be done that is more complex that means that this thing isn't more complex" which is a stupid, pedantic argument. Nobody said "1-2-3" is "hard" and nobody said "1-1-1" is "not hard."

The argument is that 1-2-3 is harder than 1-1-1, and significantly more than you're giving it credit for. But, I'd imagine that's difficult for someone with your brain capacity to understand I suppose. There's definitely no difference between DPSing as a healer and DPSing as any other job. Nope nope nope. Healers don't complain about pressing 1 button 70%-90% of a fight, nope nope nope. Summoner being reduced to 2 buttons for a majority of their rotation has been widely accepted as a great idea.

I honestly wish that I lived in whatever world you guys are in.

lol

Great response. Your intelligence and command of the English language is staggering. I don't know how I didn't see it your way.



You guys want to argue your points, use that brain capacity to do so.

[Deveryn]

The layering is great for some classes, but not others. It made a lot of sense for summoner, but it wouldn't make sense for something like samurai. What we have right now is likely to stay as it is.

Melees certainly aren't likely to be condensed as most have skills branching off. The most they might do is stack up the AOE combos to save space.

[Rowde]

As a controller player you have 16 slots on 8 pages with immediate access to many of them through the multitude of shortcuts to access those pages without needing to manually flip through them. You actually have more space on a single crossbar than a keyboard player has on a single hotbar. I don't wanna hear that crap about lack of real estate for controller users. If you can't juggle face buttons and the dpad in a game with a 2.5s GCD then that's a you problem.

and you ignored what I said about execution through movement mechanics

to press the directional buttons "naturally" requires the momentary removal of the thumb from the left analog stick
depending on the actual dance involved with the movement mechanics sometimes momentarily stopping movement isn't an option
not impossible to do but requires fast reflexes and/or enough knowledge about the fight to pre-plan everything

also saying controller has access to 8 pages is a stretch bigger than the Grand Canyon
in combat you have quick access to 3 pages with:
L1 and R1 (which most use as their default bar)
L1 + R1 and R1 + L1
double tap L1 and double tap R1
and while that is 48 buttons total only half (24) are face buttons

and each of those pages I personally have either 'often used buttons' or 'oh crap buttons' on the face buttons and I still have things also living on directional buttons that I wouldn't mind having on face buttons

[RitsukoSonoda]

They are solely talking about abilities that have chained combos, and these inherently end up taking up more space. Try any melee dps or tank in PVP mode and you will see what they mean. Again, the OP put this forward as an optional thing. I would not use it. Many wouldn't. But it'd be nice as an option for those complaining about lack of button space etc. like Rowde above. With that said, I also like the suggestion Leon had about an AOE type stance. Not that it need be mutually exclusive, but there's non-combo using jobs which also utilise a lot of button space, so that would be beneficial there. Their design is just not very economical in some cases, where it could be.

So take DRG as an example. They have 1-2-3-4-5 then also 1-6-7-5-4
SAM 1-2-3, 1-4-5, 1-6
I don't even want to look at MNK atm...
I'm literally just looking at basic combo chain skills.
However ranged physical dps don't have a 1-2-3 combo because their basic weapon skill abilities are pretty much a process of pressing 1 until a proc happens that highlights 2 and 3.
Ranged magical DPS don't really have a 1-2-3 combo either as they're more about skill synergies and resource mechanics.

[Deveryn]

They are solely talking about abilities that have chained combos, and these inherently end up taking up more space. Try any melee dps or tank in PVP mode and you will see what they mean. Again, the OP put this forward as an optional thing. I would not use it. Many wouldn't. But it'd be nice as an option for those complaining about lack of button space etc. like Rowde above. With that said, I also like the suggestion Leon had about an AOE type stance. Not that it need be mutually exclusive, but there's non-combo using jobs which also utilise a lot of button space, so that would be beneficial there. Their design is just not very economical in some cases, where it could be.

Achieving an AOE stance for the purpose of saving button space is as simple as putting said buttons on a new row. Just flip back and forth as needed.

[SenorPatty]

Man, all this extreme focus on skills when the real glory is in the saved space and keeping hotbars tighter and neater.

[Ayer2015]

Why do people keep asking for this? It gives me a strong "I want to roll my face on the keyboard and collect my rewards" vibe

Probably because anything over 24 skills feels like button bloat.

[Ransu]

Probably because anything over 24 skills feels like button bloat.

lol nonsense.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Probably because anything over 24 skills feels like button bloat.

Nah it's probably because FPS games are pretty much played with only 1 button so that's all a lot of the ppl coming from those can handle... :P